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Laser or no laser?

GlockMan

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I know this is often a personal choice, but I run into a lot of people who abhor the use of lasers. Their main point being that a laser doesn't make you a better shooter.

I have a laser on my Glock 37 and I definately think there is some value in it. I agree that a laser won't make you a better shooter, mechanics-wise. But, it will make you shoot better. As long as you continue to practice the mechanics, a laser, IMHO, will help you in self defense situations in speed of tracking 1 or more targets.

I personally practice both ways, with and without the laser. After all, it can fail, and then what? I practice my mechanics but also feel that the laser can help me shoot better in stress and time-sensitive situations, even in low-light if I don't have a light handy.

So, what I tell people is this: a laser won't make you a better shooter, but it will allow you to shoot better without having to use your sights.

What do you guys think?
 

cs9c1

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The pros use them (Military: Delta, Seals, etc..). I believe there must be some benefit especially in low light conditions. Plus they seem to have an intimidation factor that could lead into the bad guy standing down without requiring you to shoot. They also look cool as hell (my opinion) :D.
 

GlockMan

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cs9c1 wrote:
The pros use them (Military: Delta, Seals, etc..). I believe there must be some benefit especially in low light conditions. Plus they seem to have an intimidation factor that could lead into the bad guy standing down without requiring you to shoot. They also look cool as hell (my opinion) :D.

Good point on the intimidation factor, I forgot about that one.
 

molonlabetn

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Lasers are a tool, much like a light, bayonet, or scope... All have their uses when used in conjunction with a firearm. To be effective, any tool must be set-up and used properly.

They are good for unaimed snap-shots and point-shooting, IF you have mastered the proper handling of the gun that it is mounted on, AND if you have practicedusing the laser itself. Also good for estimating range and point-of-impact. NOT good to rely on for accurate shooting. If used defensively, a laser will give away your position, much like a weapon-mounted light. Lasers can also 'drift' (become misaligned over time), and if you rely on the dot for aim, your bullet will not end up where you intended (very bad thing!). I would not advocate the use of a laser for anything but a short range target acquisition AID, not a replacement for the sights.

molonlabetn
 

panic215

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I agree whith what everyone has said.

I really like the idea of having a laser, especially in a defensive situation. The laser should allow you to "see" where your aiming while moving to cover / retreating to saftey. I could also see it as a benifit while engadging multiple BG's.

Cheers,

Jason
 

Got Sig?

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I have an internal Lasermax on my SIG P229. I use it primarilly as a training aid, as it allows me to see where I may be anticipating recoil, jerking the trigger, or using other bad habits. When I train with it, the idea is to keep it from moving off the target center. Training with it over time promotes muscle memory and actually makes you a better point shooter. I don't carry with it installed.

There is also the intimidation factor, but I don't know if I would use it in a self defense scenario.
 

cREbralFIX

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Never. It's a gadget that can fail. There's no substitute for learning to shoot properly. Besides, at 1 to 15 feet where most encounters occur, what do you need a laser pointer for?
 

panic215

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cREbralFIX wrote:
Never. It's a gadget that can fail. There's no substitute for learning to shoot properly. Besides, at 1 to 15 feet where most encounters occur, what do you need a laser pointer for?
Agreed, It's no substitue for practice and training. But the deterent factor is a big plus.


Cheers,

Jason
 

cREbralFIX

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I'm not so sure about the deterrent factor. What if the goblin doesn't see it or is doped up and doesn't care? I'd rather not waste that precious second or two figuring out whether or not the goblin is intimidated. Moving is a better investment, IMHO.
 

possumboy

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I have one for my XD-9 Subcompact. It was a gift. It is fun toshoot with, but I never carry with it attached. It is also a high powered flashlight.

I just don't see myself clearing out any drug houses anytime soon.
 

cs9c1

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cREbralFIX wrote:
I'm not so sure about the deterrent factor. What if the goblin doesn't see it or is doped up and doesn't care? I'd rather not waste that precious second or two figuring out whether or not the goblin is intimidated. Moving is a better investment, IMHO.
I don't intend to insinuate that a laser can defuse all situations. If the threatening individual is "doped up" or just nuts, I agree that moving to cover (if possible) , breathing, and a steady squeeze are the best answer. But (and this is a big but) if you are dealing with anyone with a lick of sense, I believe, they would think twice about pursuing injury upon an individual with a pistol illuminating their chest or head (if your that good) with a laser. I don't use one now(I trust my iron sights). I have used them and they do have a place,in point or low light shooting they do assist in acquiring your target faster. No gimmick will ever out do training. It takes thousands of rounds, patience, and good direction to become a superior marksman, IMHO. And even then it can all got the hell in a hurry when the stress of a situation take effect. OK, I'm off the soap box now.:DNext...
 

cREbralFIX

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LOL...

I've noticed that many people who have lasers on their pistols at the range really bounce all over the place with it. It doesn't look easy to use. Is that the case?
 

GlockMan

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cREbralFIX wrote:
LOL...

I've noticed that many people who have lasers on their pistols at the range really bounce all over the place with it. It doesn't look easy to use. Is that the case?

The laser definately shows you how shaky you are but I think the shakiness is also a result of looking downrange at the target and not using your sights and not using proper technique. I still like the idea of having a laser there in the case I might not have the time or mental clarity to use proper technique and I can still see about where my round is gonna go. Of course, that's the point of practicing, so you don't have the think about technique, it's already there.

One more thing, is I think the laser can help on longer range shots too but I haven't 'scientifically' tested that.
 

Got Sig?

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Well I sold my Lasermax a week ago. I was using it primarilly as a training aid, and found it to be helpfull in taming some bad habits. Now I notice no difference in my groups without it, they are still 2 to 3 inches at 15yds. Prior to using the Lasermax they were 4 to 6 with some fliers, so I think it paid off.
 

ilbob

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I think the deterent effect is limited for CC holders. You will probably never have theluxury to pull, point, lase, and wait to see if it has any effect on an attacker. You will be lucky to be able to get off an aimed shot.

As a training aid it is probably a good thing.
 

panic215

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I agree ilbob. Maybe more of an issue for CC'ers like myself. I think as long as you don't rely it, it wouldn't hurt to have one.

Cheers,

Jason
 

longwatch

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My 2 cents is that a laser can't really replace the accuracy results one can achieve by the proper application of shooting fundamentals. OTOH a laser may be useful in low light situations, for compromised shooting positions or shooting around cover, and maybe for "intimidation" purposes. However, if you aren't justified in shooting someone, I can't see that pointing a laser equipped weapon at that person would be very often justified either. Not that it would never be unjustified but it could be legally dangerous for the gun owner.
 

norahc

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My concerns are these:

1) A laser may make target acquisition easier in low light, but you're betting your life or somebody elses that your laser didn't get knocked out of alignment and that your bullet is going where the dot is.

2) In low light situations, a laser gives away your position as much as it paints the target.

3) As pointed out earlier, lasers are mechanical devices that fail (especially the batteries). As we all know, Murphy was an optimist which means that the laser will fail when you need it most.

4) They're relatively expensive. Why not spend the money on night sights and range time?

5) If it's dark enough that you can't see your front sight, then you can not isolate your target and have no idea what's behind it.

Just my 2 cents worth, does anybody have change for a nickel?
 

Opie

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Jun 12, 2006
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Bristol, Virginia, USA
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Got Sig? wrote:
I have an internal Lasermax on my SIG P229. I use it primarilly as a training aid, as it allows me to see where I may be anticipating recoil, jerking the trigger, or using other bad habits. When I train with it, the idea is to keep it from moving off the target center. Training with it over time promotes muscle memory and actually makes you a better point shooter. I don't carry with it installed.

There is also the intimidation factor, but I don't know if I would use it in a self defense scenario.
I like the idea of using it as a training aid. I bet that it would really help a person develop control during the heavy trigger pull of a DAO carry gun. -Opie
 

AbNo

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Well, to add to the intimidation crowd, most BG's have probably seen enough bad action movies that they will flip out if they notice they've got a severe case of reddotitis.

Then again, some BG's are smart.

Still, there's something a bit... predatory about a laser, I suppose.

Especially if you have a three dot triangle configuration. :lol:
 
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