National Park firearm policy discussion

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I wanted to get a thread started on National Parks and firearm possession. If I understand correctly (I've had a hard time finding this in writing) you are not allowed to have a firearm in a National Park, regardless of whether you are carrying open or concealed, regardless of whether you have a CWP or not. For me, a time that I would like to have personal protection is when I am all alone in the middle of the woods, so I thought I'd do a little research on incidents in National Parks.The articles beloware from the National Parks' web site. Please add your own for discussion.

It looks like the NPS updates the news regularly, and I could only see the stories for the last seven days. There was recently an article about Hot Springs National Park in which Rangers used a Taser to subdue an individual, but that one seems to have dropped off the list. -Opie

Two fugitives wanted for an armed Iowa bank robbery were captured in Yellowstone National Park on June 14th. They had spent time in five National Park since the May 8th robbery. Besides Iowa, where the robbery took place, and Yellowstone [Wyoming] where they were apprehended, the suspects had traveled to the Grand Canyon [Nothern Arizona] and Las Vegas [Nevada]. The officials found the suspects when they were investigating a hit-and-run accident. They did not locate them as a direct result of investigating the bank robbery. Thesuspects fled/resisted arrest. A Ranger used a Taser gun to subdue one suspect.

http://www.nps.gov/applications/digest/headline.cfm?type=Incidents&id=2636

http://www.nps.gov/applications/digest/headline.cfm?type=Incidents&id=2654&urlarea=incidents

An aggressive black bear was trapped in Yellostone National Park June 20th and later euthanized. The bear had been foraging for food in campsites, had broken into a car, and had charged visitors. Rangers were unsuccessful in scaring the bear away from the camp sites.

http://www.nps.gov/applications/digest/headline.cfm?type=Incidents&id=2646&urlarea=incidents

Multiple incidents in the Grand Canyon National Park: an incident with a stolen handgun, arrests for felony warrants, traffic stop leading to struggle and use of a Taser, and a domestic dispute involving a knife.

http://www.nps.gov/applications/digest/headline.cfm?type=Incidents&id=2645&urlarea=incidents

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I am new to guns, but I know that on the Parks Highway near Denali National Park in Alaska, there are signed saying all guns must be unloaded while traveling through the park property.

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I read somewhere that the firearm policy is under review, and that there is a good chance the policy will be changed to be more like the policy in the national forests (which amounts to following local law).

If I can find where I have read this,I will post it. I seem to recal VCDL is behind the push to get this changed.

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My understanding is that firearms in National Parks must be unloaded and ammo and guns locked away seperately and not accessable. So much for self defense aginst criminals.
Unfortunately, the NPS (many, not all) has become a haven for drugs, smuggling of illegals and crime in general. Not to mention you can't defend youself against 4 leggeds.
Still, statistically, one is fairly safe compared to other high crime areas.
The link below list some of the more dangerous:
http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/03_Yellowstone/030801.most.dangerous.park.html
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[/font][font="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"]Most Dangerous National Parks - 2003[/font]
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On June 28, the U.S. Park Rangers Lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police released its third annual survey of the 10 Most Dangerous National Parks. The rangers cited increasing problems with illegal immigrants, drug smuggling, and potential terrorist threats.

Arizona's Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument topped the rangers' list for the third year in a row. Following is the list.

1. Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument (Arizona): After the August 2002 murder of National Park Service Ranger Kris Eggle, the NPS bolstered its force at the monument with tactical teams, since removed, and has failed to restore staff levels to previous levels.

2. Amistad National Recreation Area (Texas): Amistad shares the same problems of drug and alien smuggling as Organ Pipe. Seven rangers attempt to hold the line on 85 miles of an international border. With days off, it means that only one or two are on duty at any given hour of the day, and at night, the park is turned over to the smugglers.

3. Big Bend National Park (Texas): This park, which has the largest boundary with Mexico, struggles with an overwhelming flow of illegal aliens. According to the rangers, the park has violated NPS orders to hire law enforcement staff before hiring other personnel, leaving the few remaining rangers understaffed.

4. Lake Mead National Recreation Area (Nevada/Arizona): Although Congress has approved funding for 24-hour patrol coverage, this park operates without law enforcement at night due to staff shortages. Lake Mead has at least 17 fewer rangers than in 2002.

5. Coronado National Memorial (Arizona): Although a small park, Coronado is grappling with ever-more-sophisticated drug smuggling networks.

6. Biscayne National Park (Florida): Drug smuggling and illegal fishing are major problems at this park. A potentially devastating vulnerability is its proximity to the Turkey Point nuclear power plant. The plant is located just a mile and a half from park headquarters, and the plant's security zone is almost exclusively on park waters.

7. Shenandoah National Park (Virginia): The understaffed ranger work force is coping with a large number of armed poachers and encroaching suburban crime. The ranger staff has been cut in violation of NPS policy.

8. Delaware Water Gap (New Jersey/Pennsylvania): Once one of the best law enforcement programs in the NPS, Delaware Water Gap now has half the rangers in the field it did in the mid-1990s. At night, only one or two rangers are on patrol.

9. Edison National Historic Site (New Jersey): Growing urban crime is having an impact on this park, leaving rangers outmanned and outgunned. Rangers are denied pepper spray, shotguns and rifles, and access to a dispatch. Edison's irreplaceable treasures are guarded and inaccessible to the public.

10. Yellowstone National Park (Wyoming): At the beginning of the 2003 season Yellowstone eliminated its entire seasonal law enforcement staff. This forced rangers into solo patrols on the roads, few patrols in the backcountry, and a dangerous lack of backup in a park with a growing list of incidents to respond to.

For the rangers' full report, which includes a secondary list of "Dishonorable Mentions," visit this Web address: http://www.rangerfop.com/danger03.htm.

For more information on the rangers and their efforts to ensure park safety, visit their Web site at http://www.rangerfop.com.

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Here are some recent incidents from the National Park Service web page:

CHRISTIANSTED NATIONAL HISTORIC SITE
Burglary At Customs House

YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK
Commercial Vehicle Inspections Turn Up Dozens Of Violations

The inspections resulted in the arrest of "four undocumented foreign nationals"

SHENANDOAH NATIONAL PARK
Suicide Victim Found on Park Fire Road

CHESAPEAKE & OHIO CANAL NATIONAL HISTORICAL PARK
Probable Suicide at Monocacy Aqueduct

I don't mean any disrepect by linking the stories about the suicides, but I do wonder if a person in that frame of mind would have regardfor the safety of me and my family if our paths happened to cross.

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Opie wrote:

I don't mean any disrepect by linking the stories about the suicides, but I do wonder if a person in that frame of mind would have regardfor the safety of me and my family if our paths happened to cross.

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You never really know. I would personally be more concerned with your everyday thug.
I wonder what would happen if a person was carrying a handgun in a NP and thwarted a robbery- gang rape-kidnapping scenario in the NP. Would the Federal State Prosecutor go after the hero who saved the day? Or what if a woman defended herself with a technically illegal handgun against a gang of Mara-Salva 13 type gang thugs while in a NP in the Southwest?

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"Mara-Salva 13"

MS 13, or Mara Salvatrucha 13. Dangerous folk. Good thing here in Washington we have some VERY GOOD self defense laws. We haven't had much of a problem with MS13 up here going after normal citizens. They'll go after people in DC or Los Angeles, but not Seattle. Gee, I wonder why.

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Lonnie Wilson wrote:

They'll go after people in DC or Los Angeles, but not Seattle. Gee, I wonder why.

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Because we are a bunch of dangerous, gun totting, cowboy.... Oh wait that is what the Antis want every one to think. Anyway how dare anyone cloud the facts with the truth oops Anti talk again. Maybe someday we will get lucky and the Antis will actually learn to read the facts.

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cs9c1 wrote:

Because we are a bunch of dangerous, gun totting, cowboy.... Oh wait that is what the Antis want every one to think. Anyway how dare anyone cloud the facts with the truth oops Anti talk again. Maybe someday we will get lucky and the Antis will actually learn to read the facts.

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Do these thug types wish to inflict harm on us or our families? They may see what a bunch of dangerous, gun packing, well trained and exercising the right to self defense types we are.:uhoh:

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Well said, sorry about the sarcasm.

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Here is something that happened recently at the Grand Canyon, just one more reason to allow carry. She was supposedly stabbed 29 times.


Feds offer reward in slaying of Japanese tourist
The FBI has posted a $5,000 reward for information about the May slaying of a Japanese woman at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.

The victim was visiting Havasupai alone and was last seen walking on a popular trail leading to the Havasupai Falls after checking in to the lodge at Supai on May 8th.

She apparently never slept in her room and a maid reported her missing the next day. Her body was found by a group of swimmers on May 13th floating in a pool below a waterfall.

A coroner's report says the victim had been stabbed more than two dozen times.

An FBI dive team found some of her belongings, but her cell phone, credit cards and cash have not been recovered.

Anyone with information is asked to call the FBI's Flagstaff office.



http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stories/KTVKLNews20060711_fbi_havawupai_tourist.29643c7.html

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cs9c1 wrote:

Well said, sorry about the sarcasm.

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But you are exactly right.

Those who wish to deny us the right to self defense love to call us names. They rant on with dire predictions of "blood in the streets" if CCW laws are passed and "Castle Doctrine" laws are extended from private property to public property. It's so bad they have to send their women (Million Marching Mommies's) out to do their dirty work.
We have shown them all wrong. They have projected their own fear and ignorance upon us and it has come right back at them.

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Recent incidents from the National Parks:

GULF ISLANDS NATIONAL SEASHORE - FL,MS
Suicide In Fort Pickens Area

FORT DAVIS NATIONAL HISTORIC SITE
Two Plead Guilty To Weapons Theft

Laws don't keep the guns out... -Opie

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Opie wrote:

Laws don't keep the guns out... -Opie

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How can you say that? They have signs, law, rules, ordnance's, and all that. No one would dare take a gun into a gun free (read: criminals welcome) zone.

More sarcasm!

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Here are links to an incident on the Blue Ridge Parkway and a shooting in aSouth Dakota State Park involving the illegal use of firearms.

BLUE RIDGE PARKWAY
Arrest For Attempted Murder

SOUTH DAKOTA PARKS
Annual Sturgis Motorcycle Rally

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Opie wrote:

Here are links to an incident on the Blue Ridge Parkway and a shooting in aSouth Dakota State Park involving the illegal use of firearms.

...

SOUTH DAKOTA PARKS
Annual Sturgis Motorcycle Rally

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I've been to that area of South Dakota, and I'm kind of suprised that the local residents didn't shoot back.

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cs9c1 wrote:

Opie wrote:

Laws don't keep the guns out... -Opie

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How can you say that? They have signs, law, rules, ordnance's, and all that. No one would dare take a gun into a gun free (read: criminals welcome) zone.

More sarcasm!

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You sound like a smart-alleck, and I like smart-allecks. :lol:

ProguninTN

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ProguninTN wrote:

cs9c1 wrote:

Opie wrote:

Laws don't keep the guns out... -Opie

Click to expand...

How can you say that? They have signs, law, rules, ordnance's, and all that. No one would dare take a gun into a gun free (read: criminals welcome) zone.

More sarcasm!

Click to expand...

You sound like a smart-alleck, and I like smart-allecks. :lol:

ProguninTN

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I know it's one of my personal shortcomings, but I can't help it. I've tried to stop but I can't. I'm actually a little sensitive about it, if you want to know the truth... -Opie

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All quiet in the National Parks during the last few weeks! Rangers did find and identify the body of a man missing since Sept 2005 in the Grand Canyon.

GRAND CANYON NATIONAL PARK
Skeletal remains found in Grand Canyon National Park identified

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Check it out! Note in particular the date it was last updated.

http://www.nps.gov/pub_aff/e-mail/weapons.htm