Driver wrestles gun from carjacker, suspect killed

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Driver wrestles gun from carjacker, suspect killed
LAST UPDATE: 6/26/2006 10:29:03 AM

CAMBRIDGE, Ohio (AP) - Authorities in eastern Ohio say a suspected carjacker is dead, shot and killed by the motorist whose vehicle he was trying to steal.

Guernsey County Sheriff Mike McCauley says 44-year-old John Toubell of Antrim sneaked into the back seat of the parked car while the driver was inside a gas station early yesterday.

Twenty-nine-year-old Brian Starr of Cambridge says he saw a head in his rearview mirror as he drove away, and then he saw a gun.

Starr was shot in the leg as the men scuffled for the gun. Starr got the gun away from Toubell and shot and killed the suspect.

The sheriff says the shooting appears to be self-defense because the motorist had been shot first. An autopsy is planned today.

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Information from: The Columbus Dispatch, http://www.dispatch.com

http://www.wkrc.com/news/state/story.aspx?content_id=AF307532-B8A5-42D2-9D5C-BC2E74DE9F35

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"The sheriff says the shooting appears to be self-defense because the motorist had been shot first."

Appears to be self defense....WTF.

So now, is it only considered self defense if you get shot first???? The media really knows how to spin things.

Jason

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panic215 wrote:

"The sheriff says the shooting appears to be self-defense because the motorist had been shot first."

Appears to be self defense....WTF.

So now, is it only considered self defense if you get shot first???? The media really knows how to spin things.

Jason

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I think the issue is once you take the gun away from the attacker and he is now unarmed, are you allowed to shoot them? In VA, I think that would not count as self defense because at that point you have the ability to escape the situation.

HOWEVER, I do not agree with that. I agree with the saying: Once you knowingly decide the break the law, you are relieved of the protection of the law.

And, really, how do you know if the attacker doesn't have a back-up weapon? A knife? Frankly, I would have told the LEO on scene that the attacker was shot AS WE BOTH FOUGHT FOR THE GUN. That would clear up the whole situation. I hope this guy doesn't get screwed by the law.

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I read it as the sheriff believed it was self-defense and only offered up the part about thevictim being wounded as someof his reasoningas to why he believed it to be self-defense.

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I agree, from a rational person's (like the officer) mind, that is self defense. But the law sometimes gets in the way. I hope it doesn't here.

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In addition to that fact that the BG might have another weapon, who's to say he won't be able to grab the gun back? I think that there would be more than enough reason to believe that your life is still quite in danger, even after obtaining the gun.

This case is yet another example of why we need the Stand Your Ground law in all 50 states.

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GlockMan wrote:

panic215 wrote:

"The sheriff says the shooting appears to be self-defense because the motorist had been shot first."

Appears to be self defense....WTF.

So now, is it only considered self defense if you get shot first???? The media really knows how to spin things.

Jason

Click to expand...

I think the issue is once you take the gun away from the attacker and he is now unarmed, are you allowed to shoot them? In VA, I think that would not count as self defense because at that point you have the ability to escape the situation.

HOWEVER, I do not agree with that. I agree with the saying: Once you knowingly decide the break the law, you are relieved of the protection of the law.

And, really, how do you know if the attacker doesn't have a back-up weapon? A knife? Frankly, I would have told the LEO on scene that the attacker was shot AS WE BOTH FOUGHT FOR THE GUN. That would clear up the whole situation. I hope this guy doesn't get screwed by the law.

Click to expand...

I believe case law in Virginia has established Castle Doctrine. We are allowed to stand our ground as long as we are allowed to be there. If your in your car, your allowed to be there . If someone shoots me in the leg and I manage to get the gun away from them (and I'm not carrying one of my own). It's bang bang without thought. They have established desire to kill me and just because I have momentary control of the gun doesn't mean they can't get it back.

I wouldn't say anything to LEO, just execise your right to remain silent.

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I agree, NEVER tell the LEO on scene ANYTHING. And it's not anything against LEO's, per se, many are my friends and I admire them and the job that they do. The problem is they are an extension of the prosecutor who will take whatever you say and twist it, making it very difficult for you to defend yourself in court.

Believe me they will say all kinds of things to get you to talk too, like, "If you did nothing wrong, then you have nothing to fear by saying anything." They are very well trained in getting people to talk.

You need say only 1 thing, "I am exercising my right to be silent." Then get in touch with your lawyer.

It seems antagonistic to the LEO, and they'll probably think you have something to hide, but you have to do what you can to protect yourself.

Remember, in this country (or the idea of this country), you are secure in your person and possessions until evidence is brought against you. Do not give them any evidence by talking.