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Holsters and Accessories

A

Arizonatexan

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Simply for the sake of discussion - no argument or ill to anyone intended -stating the devil's advocate side ...

It's a well known fact that an assailant wielding a knife can cover 21 feet in 1.7 seconds. It takes a trained policeman longer than that to react, draw and shoot from an exposed duty holster. In the time you react, draw and shoot from concealed carry the bad guy can cover 30 feet and stab you. It can take afast-draw expert 2-3 seconds from concealed carry. Realistically, it can take the average joe up to 8 secondsto deploy his handgun. A healthy young man can run 30 to40 yards in 8seconds.

Now if the bad guyhas a gun instead of a knife and he already has it drawn - chances are you are going to be shot before you can react. Statistically, most gun battles take placewithin 7 feet or less. If the bad guyhas not drawn his weapon yet or if he is in the process of drawing - you might - if you are really good - have a couple of seconds to draw your gun. This being said, by carrying open instead of concealed you eliminatea second or a second and a few tenths from your draw time. With an open top holster you shave off another few precious tenths of a second compared to the delay in un-snapping a retention device.Clearly, every tenth of a second could mean yourlife or death.

This is the argument for open-top versus closed or retention holsters. Of course there is no substitute forconsiderable practice with whatever rig you carry. But it is equally a good argument for remainingvigilant and alert to your surroundings atall times and avoidingthe situation all together if at all possible.


Arizona-Texan
 

longwatch

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I took some training this past weekend and we did a lot of work with a simulated Tueller drill. It was very enlightening. Even if one is an extraordinarily fast draw its more like 30 feet that one could get an attacker before he could cut you. Its even worse when you consider that pistols are wimpy, even a heart or head shot might not stop the bad guy.
 

jimwyant

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Arizonatexan: Point well taken. Draw technique is another consideration. Move as you draw. This will help buy time by (hopefully) helping your attacker miss. As you have said, learn good techniques, practice them regularly, and BE ALERT!! The biggest thing that may save your life is being well trained and proficiency with whatever setup you carry. Your life may depend on it.

Many retention holsters are engineered well enough that a normal draw motion will release the weapon. For example, my practiced draw style and the thumb break position on my holster are such that my thumb will unsnap it as I am reaching for the grip. I haven't timed myself with this vs. open top holsters that I own, but it would surprise me if there is any measurable difference in my draw time. Even though I am fat and getting old, I do occasionally need to waddle faster than a normal walking pace. I don't trust any holster that doesn't have some kind of active retention to keep my weapon in place under these conditions. This paranoia most likely comes from dropping my G36 twice in the same day, even after checking and re-tightening the tension screw in my G&G SOB holster. As much as anything, this is why I make the holster choices I do.

longwatch: Speak for yourself.:) My sidearm and carry ammo combination is not as strong as some, but with 1,750+ ft./lbs. of energy at the muzzle, I wouldn't exactly call it wimpy. (Alaskan in .454 Casull w/300gr Gold Dots, and yes, it is my primary carry) I wanted a guaranteed one-shot stop, and this is as close as I could come to that. Where was your training? I would be interested - it sounds like a good class.
 

longwatch

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OK I had to do some checking on muzzle energy stats to relate to how powerful the Alaskan is. Roughly twice as powerful as a .44 magnum and I am impressed. Still nothing is a garunteed stop but you are coming close. I would just be concerned about overpenetration, every round we may fire has a lawyer attatched.
I just took the Defensive Handgun 1 FPF training course at Quantico. Its a very good course for the money and its not very much money relative to Blackwater. I was very impressed and I learned a lot.
http://www.fpftraining.com/
 

jimwyant

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This is getting off the subject of this thread, but... Overpenetration was a definite concern when I was considering the Alaskan as my primary carry, as was the 44 mag that I carried before I discovered the Aklaskan. The research I've done on both the Gold Dots and Hornady XTP's shows the tendency of both bullets to expand very well, so I'm taking my chances. Hopefully I will never find myself in a situation where I will have to set the cannon off. If I do, I only pray that the hollow point performs as it is designed and there is no collateral damage. Even without collateral damage, I will likely face a civil suit by the family of the deceased, in which they will no doubt bring up my choice to carry one of the five most powerful production handguns in the world, but "better to be tried by twelve than carried by six".

Thanks for the training link.
 

jimwyant

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Will you be able to make the Richmond OC get-together planned for next weekend? http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/408.html If so, I'd welcome the opportunity to check it out then. In fact, since we both live east end/M'ville area, you can ride with me and a shooting buddy who plans to go, if you'd like. If this isn't convenient for you, I'll meet up with you some other time to "check yours out". :lol:
 

DeerForce1

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I think the Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster is a really nice holster but try it out thoroughly before you buy it. I got 1 for the XD-40 & it was probably a great fit for the full size guns but it was a very loose & sloppy fit for my sub compact.It seemed to be an issue with the barrel being to short to stabilize the firearm.All the other holsters i tried fit either the full size & sub compact XDs just as well.

This is just my little bit of experience with the CQC serpa. If they ever come out with a CQC to fit my sub compact i'll be the first in line to get 1......................................................................DF1
 

cs9c1

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DeerForce1 wrote:
This is just my little bit of experience with the CQC serpa. If they ever come out with a CQC to fit my sub compact i'll be the first in line to get 1......................................................................DF1
Did you try adjusting the tensioner screw. Just a thought.
 

DeerForce1

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I tightened the tension nut but ti seemed like the opening in the front of the holster was to deep & it didn't capture the enough of the slide& barrel to securely hold the XD sub compact. The open bottom of the holster was about 1" below the end of the barrel & tyhere was barely 1" of slide in the closed part of the holster.

I like the design & the way the CQC holsters function it just didn't work for me due to the size of my firearm............................................................DF1
 

parashoot man

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longwatch wrote:
Hey guys, I'm just saying this because I'd hate to see someone get their gun snatched or worse. Fobus holsters are NOT safe for OC. Judge for yourself, but think about this, a lot of bad guys have seen the following video and know the Fobus holsters weakness.
It ain't gonna happen wiht a SUPRA!
 

longwatch

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If you mean a SERPA holster, I think you are right. I have one courtesy of VAopencarry, I'm still working on getting used to it but it is fast.
 

parashoot man

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Thanks for the SPELLCHECK.
Will you be at the 9/8 BANQUET?
I will as long as I can get a street address to Mapquest it.
 

Grapeshot

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Help, help! Does anyone know of a good OC holster for a Glock 23 Gen II (w/rails)? I want to find something prior to Oct. 25th - my son's birthday. He likes kydex though I don't. He is presently carrying it in a minimal Yaqui that has zero retention. I have searched the net, emailed Fobus (they don't), the Blackhawk CQC - they say only fits the .45 cal. Is the Gen II Glock 23 too new to have a holster for it? Can find no "contact us" email for Glock.:cuss::banghead:
 

NytoVa

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I use a Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster for my G23 that I bought a few months ago. I believe it's a Gen II. It has the light rails.

I CC 99% of the time and have had no problems w/ the holster. I used it for the first time at a Blackwater training class.First few draws were kind of comical getting use to the serpa retention, but w/ practice it became a non issue.

Here's a link http://www.blackhawk.com/product_detail.asp?product_id=4021&d=
 

Grapeshot

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I apreciate the input re Blackhawk Serpa CQC. You can imagine my confusion when I received the following reply from Blackhawk in response to my quiry about the Serpa CQC for a Glock 23 with rails.
"Thank you for contacting BlackHawk Products Group.
We do not offer a holster for that model. It is just for the Glock 23 with the .45 caliber."
Aren't all Glock 23's .40 cal.? It appears that even when we contact the experts (?). we can not rely on the response. I'm going to try to find one locally today, maybe at Town Police Supply as they carry a lot of Glocks for LE.
 

Grapeshot

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:D Bought a Blackhawk Serpa CQC from Town Police Supply in Richmond (Hull & Courthouse Rd) for below list price and a matching mag case for my son's Glock 23. The rails do not make any differance. These people are very knowledgeable, helpful and have an excellant stock of holsters etc. Their weapons prices are good, more so if you are LEO. Check them out - you wont be disappointed.
Incidentally, all new production Glocks will apparently have rails. Thanks for the info on holster fit NytoVa.
 
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