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Thread: mall open carry

  1. #1
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    does anybody know if anybody in a mall has the authority to kick you out for open carrying? our malls have security and state police inside, just wondering if they have the right to boot you out, theres no signs that say no weapons or anything...

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    Generally property owners can exclude persons from their premises; however some federal and state laws limit this power under civil rights laws, hospitality laws, etc. However, I know of no statute or case law on point about protecting RTKBA on private property - best policy at malls is to conceal, don;t ask, don;t tell, b/c the mall is sort of a tradgedy of the commons - no store owner owns it - mall management and security have no incentive to respect your righ tto shop while open carrying b/c they do not own a store.

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    Generally, thay can ask anyone to leave their property that they wish... But, as Mike pointed out, there may be civil-rights or hopitality-law issues that would give you some play.

    I personally have open-carried in a mid-tn mall just a few times, and had no incidents. As long as you are within the laws of your particular state, and the building isn't posted, you should be fine.

    I prefer to conceal when I know that I'll be in a very public area, with a large number of people around.

    molonlabetn

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    you dont think they could legally disarm me do you?

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    Not without your permission! And I would strongly advise against giving someone whom you don't know permission to handle your gun (they may not be able to legally handle it, for one thing!).

    If someone attempted to disarm me by surprise, or force, I would be in fear for my life, and would react accordingly.

    If a law-enforcement officer positively identifies himself, and has cause to disarm me, I would allow myself to be temporarily disarmed. But, if I get tackled from behind by an unidentified attacker, I am not going to wait to see who it is to take action against such an attack. I was not born on this earth to bend over backwards for people who don't do their job properly, regardless of whether they have a shiny security/police badge or not.

    Yet another reason to know the law, so that you are aware of when you are being illegally harrassed. Because, it is impossible for every a security/police officer to know every law on the books, or preventtheir actionsfrom being biased by personal opinion.

    Be Safe!

    molonlabetn

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    i went to the mall like an hour ago and the security nor police even saw my glock 19 on my hip, guess i got lucky, lol

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    a mall in NM can tell you not to carry do to the private property bit, I found out. Its posted under the NM state carry bit.

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    Yeah, I was approached by two LEO's in Coronado Mall and told that it was against mall rules that I carry ANY weapon in the mall. They didn't try to tackle me or even disarm me. They just told me to put it in my car. They also gave me a card that had all the mall rules on it. They were very professional and I don't blame them for making me leave, I blame the mall. After all, I wasn't about to put my gun in my carand risksomeonenoticing (free gun!:shock so I left.

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    Raptor wrote:
    Yeah, I was approached by two LEO's in Coronado Mall and told that it was against mall rules that I carry ANY weapon in the mall. They didn't try to tackle me or even disarm me. They just told me to put it in my car. They also gave me a card that had all the mall rules on it. They were very professional and I don't blame them for making me leave, I blame the mall. After all, I wasn't about to put my gun in my carand risksomeonenoticing (free gun!:shock so I left.
    Was it LEO's or mall security? I'm kinda suprised that LEO's would enforce a mall policy...I always thought their job was to enforce the laws.



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    norahc wrote:
    Was it LEO's or mall security? I'm kinda suprised that LEO's would enforce a mall policy...I always thought their job was to enforce the laws.
    LEO's. They have a police substation in the mall, and are always therewith security. In fact, I see themMORE than security (not number wise, just frequency). I'm sure the mall policy is low priority, but is enforced apparently. That's the first time I'd heard ofit either.

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    thought you all might like to see the email I am s4ending to my local mall.



    Hello,
    I recently came to your mall to watch a movie. As a law abiding american citizen and member of the armed forces I utilize my right to keep and bear arms whenever possible. As this was the first time I would be carrying my handguns in the mall I was very careful to look around to see if there were any signs posted forbidding the lawful carrying of concealed or non concealed handguns. I Did not see any obvious ones and then I saw the small poster of rules posted in the foyer of the entrance by the food court. I read the rules and about 2/3s of the way down it says no weapons permited in the mall. Now while I take great offense to any rule that denies me my right to keep and bear arms, i will of course follow them due to state law that requires I do. So upon reading that rule I exited the foyer immediatly and went back outside, there was a security guard, who was holding the door for people, incedentally he held the door for me and my wife failing to notice my handguns in plain view, and I asked him if that rule applied to people legally open carrying. He said it did and I assured him I had no problem disarming to enter the mall.I removed and secured my weapons. The point of my email is this;
    First, If you are going to forbide law abiding citizens the ability to protect themselves and there family you should have a sign ON the door that states that. Not inside where it could easily be missed.
    Secondly, Unless your rule is changed I will not be using your mall facilties any more. I understand the desire to keep weapons out of your facility but a little sign like you currently have is not going to stop any "thugs" from carrying whatever they want into your mall. Your rule only affects law abiding citizens, so basically you end up having"bad people" illegally having weapons in the mall, and no "good people" inside the mall who are armed. So since you have decided to deny me and every other law abiding citizen the right to keep and bear arms, and the means of protecting ourselves and our families I will not be using your facilities.

    Sincerly,
    Nick Walker

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    Gunner,

    I would have left out the "I understand" part because I do not understand. Any policy that makes you check your means of self defence at the door when going about your normal day to day business is in my way of thinking is just inhuman.



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    Good letter, but unfortunately, I don't think you're going to get a positive response from the mall. In today's society, the only thing that matters is the bottom line and your amount of business isn't worth they're perceived liability if they allow weapons on the premises.

    I probably would have done the letter slightly differently, in an effort to make them realize that their liability increases by making me leave my weapon in my vehicle. Somthing along the lines of:

    "Can you please explain to me the rationale behind your policy of forcing me, a law abiding citizen, to leave my only means of protection in my vehicle if I choose to do business in your mall? I understand that you have the right to set the rules for your property, and respect that. My concern is that you don't realize that by forcing me to disarm, you are accepting ALL liability for my safety and well being while I'm on your property. Is this a liability that you wish to take on?"



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    well i havent sent it yet, i was waiting for ya'lls feedback, thanks.

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    Their property, their rules. Refusal to leave when informed to do so by someone who is an agent for the property owner constitutes criminal trespass.

    As for whether a sign has any effect; it depends on your state.

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    I would fix your spelling errors, use the correct there, their or they're as the case may be, and get rid of the "I understand" part

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    I don't understand any of this. I have OCed and CCed in Springfield Mall on several occasions. I have not seen any signs posted that indicates that I can't OC or CC. I have even done it with my 10 year old daughter; Iwent to the movies with her as well. I got some stares, but, that's it. I even walked by security guards and LEOs with nothing said. Of course, it has been several weeks since I have OCed there (maybe 4 weeks). I know about the trespass laws and will leave the mall ifasked to do so. So, if the rules have changed, please let me know.
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    Malum Prohibitum wrote:
    Their property, their rules. Refusal to leave when informed to do so by someone who is an agent for the property owner constitutes criminal trespass.

    As for whether a sign has any effect; it depends on your state.
    There's one big thing about this concept that has always confused me though. As far as I know at least, malls and other stores can't legally prohibit access to people based on their race. In fact, I believe that there are multiple things that private property owners can't do if their property is used for some common purpose (i.e. stores vs. an actual home). If my understanding of this is true, what makes prohibiting entry based on firearm possession any different than prohibiting based on race? Granted, not being a lawyer, my understanding of what keeps businesses from putting a "No Blacks" sign up next to the "No Firearms" sign is pretty limited.

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    vtme_grad98 wrote:
    There's one big thing about this concept that has always confused me though. As far as I know at least, malls and other stores can't legally prohibit access to people based on their race. In fact, I believe that there are multiple things that private property owners can't do if their property is used for some common purpose (i.e. stores vs. an actual home). If my understanding of this is true, what makes prohibiting entry based on firearm possession any different than prohibiting based on race? Granted, not being a lawyer, my understanding of what keeps businesses from putting a "No Blacks" sign up next to the "No Firearms" sign is pretty limited.
    They may not enact a prohibition against any person based their being part of a group that has legal civil rights status. For example, race, religion, national origin or sex.

    However, they MAY prohibit any other actions they see fit (no shirt, no shoes, no guns, etc).


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    I'm in Virginia

    Our current laws say that any business or Mallcan post a sigh notifying it's customers NO GUNS or NO WEAPONS. If you are caught with a weapon inside you are guilty of a 1ST CLASS MISTOMEANOR and or a Felony.



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    MADISON wrote:
    I'm in Virginia

    Our current laws say that any business or Mallcan post a sigh notifying it's customers NO GUNS or NO WEAPONS. If you are caught with a weapon inside you are guilty of a 1ST CLASS MISTOMEANOR and or a Felony.



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    No such law exists in VA.

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    jpierce wrote:
    They may not enact a prohibition against any person based their being part of a group that has legal civil rights status. For example, race, religion, national origin or sex.

    However, they MAY prohibit any other actions they see fit (no shirt, no shoes, no guns, etc).
    I still find this surprising. The 14th amendment was enacted in part to keep the southern states from disarming black only to have the KKK soon follow the disarming of citizens.

    I carry in Springfield all the time. I'm often there at night for the last movie and the security guards only want to keep you from wandering the mall, not stopping anything in the parking lot.

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    MADISON wrote:
    I'm in Virginia

    Our current laws say that any business or Mallcan post a sigh notifying it's customers NO GUNS or NO WEAPONS. If you are caught with a weapon inside you are guilty of a 1ST CLASS MISTOMEANOR and or a Felony.



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    Care to cite your source or the actual part of Virginia law that states this?

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    Mike wrote:
    MADISON wrote:
    I'm in Virginia

    Our current laws say that any business or Mallcan post a sigh notifying it's customers NO GUNS or NO WEAPONS. If you are caught with a weapon inside you are guilty of a 1ST CLASS MISTOMEANOR and or a Felony.



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    No such law exists in VA.
    Mike's right. Posted signs in Virginia carry no weight by law, and you are not compelled to obey them. However, the owner of the property may ask you to leave. If you do not comply at that point you may be charged with criminal trespass, which is a misdemeanor. This does not apply to facilities such as courthouses and Federal buildings - that's a different kettle of fish.

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    VALLEY VIEW MALL in Roanoke, Virginia, is owned by a very anti-gun person in North Carolina. Virginia law allows for the posting of a sign on the entrance saying"No Guns or No Weapons" The mall is so posted and it a mistomeanor if you are found with a weapon, inside the mall.





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