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Thread: Hey all!

  1. #1
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    Cool forum, glad I found it.

    I oftenOCd in Utah as a young man and never had any problems. I've wondered if the laws have changed since then.

    If I'veread things right, I can legally carry my 1911 OC with no round in the chamber, correct? If that's true, I suppose I can carry a single action revolover OC.

  2. #2
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    Welcome to the group. I think it is great so far. Very nice and lots of information. Not a bunch of guys bitching at each other about who knows more:P.

    I seem to have become the unofficial greeter of this Forum, LOL.How did that happen?

    Sorry I don't know anything about Utah, but I'm sure someone will be able to help you. Good luck.





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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    I rarely OC in UT. Everytime I do, I get stopped by a LEO asking if I have a carry license.

    No big deal, never had a problem once I produced my VACHP and Photo ID. Every LEO has been exceptionally nice.

    I have never OC'ed or CC'ed outside of Provo, Sandy, and one other town in that area (maybe Orem(?)). My company is located in Provo, so I make trips out there often.

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    Welcome and yes, following the wording of the law, you can open carry a gun that is at least two actions from firing. So having a semi-auto without a round in the chamber you should be legal.

    I find it interesting that possumboy has been stopped by LEO's, but then again that is along the Wasatch Front. I have only been OCing for a short time (in rural Utah), but I did recently see a LEO while OCing. It is hard to say if he even noticed it or me, but I have not had anyone approach me yet while OCing in Utah. It is good to hear that once you produced the proper license that their was no further issue.

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    overtaxed1 wrote:
    Welcome and yes, following the wording of the law, you can open carry a gun that is at least two actions from firing. So having a semi-auto without a round in the chamber you should be legal.

    I find it interesting that possumboy has been stopped by LEO's, but then again that is along the Wasatch Front. I have only been OCing for a short time (in rural Utah), but I did recently see a LEO while OCing. It is hard to say if he even noticed it or me, but I have not had anyone approach me yet while OCing in Utah. It is good to hear that once you produced the proper license that their was no further issue.
    The 2 action rule is for open carry without license. License holders can open carry loaded.

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    I was referring to unlicensed open carry; sorry I wasn't clear on that - thanks for the help Mike!

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    Hi all,

    I'm a new member here. I got introduced to this website through an article on concealed weapons on Wikipedia.

    Anyway, I had a quick question. When you mention open carrying of a loaded weapon is legal as long as one has a license, are you referring to a Concealed Firearm Permit, or is there a separate permit for openly carrying a loaded weapon?

    Also, one more quick question. I was once told during a discussion that if I legally carry a concealed weapon and, for whatever reason, the weapon comes into plain sight it is considered brandishing a weapon. Anyone know if this is true? It doesn't sound right to me, maybe someone can clue me in.

    Thanks in advance for any info.

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    Every question you ask is state specific. Refer to the OpenCarry.org map and click on the state you wish to open carry in.

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    Right...

    I failed to mention it, but this question pertains to the state of Utah.

    I did look on the map on the homepage, but the word "license" isn't specific enough, thus my question.

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    HalveBlue:

    I am no lawyer so don't take my opinion as fact of law - okay?

    The Utah Concealed Weapon Permit exempts the bearer from four laws (going from memory here):
    1. Carrying a concealed weapon
    2. Carrying a loaded weapon in a vehicle
    3. Carrying a loaded firearm on a public street
    4. Carrying a weapon on school property

    As far as brandishing, the term does not appear in Utah Code, however Utah Code Section 76-10-506 regarding threatening or using a dangerous weapon reads:

    " Every person, except those persons described in Section 76-10-503, who, not in necessary self defense in the presence of two or more persons, draws or exhibits any dangerous weapon in an angry and threatening manner or unlawfully uses the same in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a class A misdemeanor."

    I personally interpet the phrase "in an angry and threatening manner" to mean that simply having your weapon show from under your shirt or carrying openly to not be "brandishing" your firearm. In some states it is brandishing if your firearm is displayed or even if you print under your clothes, but Utah law isn't that restrictive (thankfully).

    HTH

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    Thanks for the reply Overtaxed1!

    After talking to several people on and off line I think the unanymous response I've gotten is that it's technically not illegal, it's not overly advisable to walk around with the weapon showing.

    A lot ofpeople aren't used to guns anymore and the sight of one would throw them into a paranoid panick attack, I guess.

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    I am getting pretty regular with open carry anymore. I have visited most shopping establishments in Richfield while openly carrying. These stores include Wal-Mart, Ace Hardware, Family Dollar, Albertsons, Lins Market, Dollar Tree, gas stations, etc. Also, my family and I go for walks fairly often and I open carry frequently.

    As confidence is gained that you won't be taken down at gunpoint for not breaking the law it is easier and you come to the realization that most people don't notice or assume that you are carrying legally or it would be hidden. I am beginning to worry less about a confrontation while open carrying than I do when I am concealed and happen to expose my gun. Criminals don't open carry so if you happen to show your gun during a gust of wind or while reaching for something I feel more like a criminal because it was hidden.

    Personally, after reading about some of the others' experiences in Utah, I'd say you would probably be okay across most of the state in general. I wouldn't open carry at the University of Utah or possibly BYU campus, but otherwise you should be fine and within your legal rights assuming you have your concealed carry license.

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    After talking to several people on and off line I think the unanymous response I've gotten is that it's technically not illegal, it's not overly advisable to walk around with the weapon showing.

    A lot ofpeople aren't used to guns anymore and the sight of one would throw them into a paranoid panick attack, I guess.
    I've been open carrying regularly for nearly a year in Sandy City and the surrounding area. Even when I CC it is normally what I've seen termed "casual concealed" meaning I make no real attempt to prevent printing and the like. My normal carry rig is a paddle holster with a full-sized 1911 carried condition 1 (cocked and locked) and even in the dead of winter I normally don't wear more of a coat than a leather flight jacket that doesn't cover the end of the barrel.

    Whatever those who haven't tried it may think, even here in the heart of suburban Utah, I've never even been asked to show my permit. In fact, I've never been approached by the police despite the fact I've OCd where they were out in force and could not have missed my gun. I OC into various chain stores, to the gas station, to city league soccer games with my children, etc. NEVER had a problem.

    Don't let assumptions slow you down.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  14. #14
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    HalveBlue wrote:
    Hi all,


    Anyway, I had a quick question. When you mention open carrying of a loaded weapon is legal as long as one has a license, are you referring to a Concealed Firearm Permit, or is there a separate permit for openly carrying a loaded weapon?

    Also, one more quick question. I was once told during a discussion that if I legally carry a concealed weapon and, for whatever reason, the weapon comes into plain sight it is considered brandishing a weapon. Anyone know if this is true? It doesn't sound right to me, maybe someone can clue me in.

    Thanks in advance for any info.
    Your questions have easy answers here in Utah.

    The only permit you need is your Utah concealed weapons permit, or a similar permit from any other State (Utah honors them all). Said permit EXEMPTS you from laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons and laws prohibiting the carrying of loaded guns in various places (like public streets, in your car, etc). However you are not required to conceal the weapon, nor are you required to carry it loaded.

    Since you are not required to conceal, there is no criminal violation if a concealed firearm should become visible during normal activities.

    Deliberately displaying it during a fight on confrontation MIGHT trigger Utah's "threatening with a deadly weapon" (our version of "brandishing") law depending on the circumstances, whether you were legally justified in using deadly force, etc. But bending over to pick up keys, or reaching up to a top shelf is NOT going to cause any problems.

    Please note, I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, AND the above applies only to Utah. There are States--such as Texas--where concealed weapons MUST remain concealed and any display, even unintentionally, is a violation of law.

    Charles

    www.goutahorg.org
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  15. #15
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    utbagpiper wrote:
    HalveBlue wrote:
    Hi all,


    Anyway, I had a quick question. When you mention open carrying of a loaded weapon is legal as long as one has a license, are you referring to a Concealed Firearm Permit, or is there a separate permit for openly carrying a loaded weapon?

    Also, one more quick question. I was once told during a discussion that if I legally carry a concealed weapon and, for whatever reason, the weapon comes into plain sight it is considered brandishing a weapon. Anyone know if this is true? It doesn't sound right to me, maybe someone can clue me in.

    Thanks in advance for any info.
    Your questions have easy answers here in Utah.

    The only permit you need is your Utah concealed weapons permit, or a similar permit from any other State (Utah honors them all). Said permit EXEMPTS you from laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons and laws prohibiting the carrying of loaded guns in various places (like public streets, in your car, etc). However you are not required to conceal the weapon, nor are you required to carry it loaded.

    Since you are not required to conceal, there is no criminal violation if a concealed firearm should become visible during normal activities.

    Deliberately displaying it during a fight on confrontation MIGHT trigger Utah's "threatening with a deadly weapon" (our version of "brandishing") law depending on the circumstances, whether you were legally justified in using deadly force, etc. But bending over to pick up keys, or reaching up to a top shelf is NOT going to cause any problems.

    Please note, I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, AND the above applies only to Utah. There are States--such as Texas--where concealed weapons MUST remain concealed and any display, even unintentionally, is a violation of law.

    Charles

    http://www.goutahorg.org
    "Summary
    Utah allows unlicensed open carry of a firearm that is at least 2 actions from firing. For example, a semi-auto may have a full mag but the chamber must be empty. Permit holder may open carry as well, but their firearms may be fully loaded. "

    This is from OPENCARRY.COM for Utah OpenCarry

    If any Q's call Clark Aposhian @ BCI ( 801-560-4836 ) . He's the Chairman of the Board @ BCI


  16. #16
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    I OC my XD40 in a black hawk serpa paddle holster frequently. To the grocery store, gamestop ('I play video games. AND I have a gun':shock:- lol), restaurants, REI, and even the movie theatre. I do not, as of yet, have my ccl (up to 120 day wait), but when I do get it, I plan to carry both ways.

    To answer the question about revolvers, the chamber under the 'hammer' ANDthe following chamber be empty. Unless you have a ccl.

    Enjoy your rights.

  17. #17
    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    My previous post seems old. I OC just about everywhere there now. Not been having a problem.

    I did get some questions from a bunch of students at the 24 hour grocery store in Provo. A couple of them should have their permits by now.

  18. #18
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    I am still in the process of waiting for my permit. I have open carried since I took my CFP class. I have been to Walmart, Target, several restaurants in pg up to draper. I have not seen a cop that I knew he saw my weapon so I can't say I haven't had any problems with LEO's. I have had some odd looks or could be construed as dirty looks from upper class women but only once has anyone ever said anything. It was in Walmart in AF. A manager said "thats what I like to see" and "we need more of that." Then he proceeded to ask me what kind of gun it was. I feel it was a positive experience. I do find that when I am OC'ing I am more careful about how I act and conduct myself as to not be aggressive in nature.



  19. #19
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    I routinely open carry, or casually conceal all over the Wasatch Front, including at the Utah State Capital. I open carry at the annual Sandy City Independance Day celebration, into city hall, as well as into most businesses including Costco, Walmart, Home Depot, Lowell's, etc.

    I've NEVER been stopped, questioned, hassled, or even so much as asked for ID, much less my CCW permit,by ANY police officer, store manager, or other person in authority. I've had a couple of kids ask if the gun was real.A fewof my fellow church members commented (most positive, one a tad negative) after the first couple of times I OC'd to the church BBQ (NOT inside a house of worship).

    The closest I've come to any kind of official encounter with a police office was the last night of the legislative session when I was OCing in the halls outside the House chambers. Two UHP troopers came over and in the most low-key, casual way you can imagine, one asked me where he knew me from. We chatted casually for about 20 seconds before I realized he was really just making sure I wasn't a security risk. Maybe someone complained about the gun. Maybe it was just that the Lt. Gov had just shown up. In any event, never mentioned the gun, never asked for ANY ID, never asked for my permit. I've still got to write his boss a nice letter of commendation for the utter proffesionalism the troopers exhibited.

    There are only a couple of places in Utah where it is technically legal to carry that I am careful to avoid detection:

    1-The hospital if I am with a family member needing treatment. I just don't need to make anyone with large needles nervous. I recently spent two nights and 2 1/2 days in the hospital with my wife while she gave birth to our youngest child. Smart Carry kept my protection close at hand and completely undetected the whole time.

    If I am just visiting someone at the hospital, I have no qualms about open carry and have done so on repeated occassions without any incident at all, though I can't guarantee that wasn't just because nobody noticed.

    2-Temple square/BYU and other similar LDS Church property. While technically legal to carry so long as I don't enter any dedicated church buildings used for worship, I know the church doesn't like carry on their property and I'd just as soon not tweak them. There are some fights you just don't want to pick. If I intend to enter the Conference Center, Tabernacle, or other dedicated house of worship, I comply with the law and leave my gun secured elsewhere.

    3-Work. I can't afford to be fired, so I abide the company's gun free policy.

    Other than those places, I have no qualms about carrying, open or concealed, anyplace in Utah where it is legal. Last time I flew out of SLC airport I carried right up to the counter (casually concealed), declared a gun to check, let the agent know I needed to unholster to put into my luggage, and did so. No issues at all.

    I'm a 30 something, clean cut, middle-class working guy who usually wears a decent pair of jeans and polo shirt. I smile a lot and don't look threatening. I'm reasonably well spoken. Maybe if someone looks, sounds, or actslike a gang banger they'd get a different reation than I do. But open carry in Utah's urban areas just isn't an issue at all in my ever growing experience.



    One final note, while "Israeli" (legally unloaded) open carryin Utah IS legal without a permit, lacking said permit you are in technical violation of the federal gun free school zone law if you are anywhere within 1000 feet of a school (other than your own property). While this law is not actively enforced, I'd not want to see some otherwise law-abiding citizen pay for some lawyer's kid to go to college in an attempt to avoid going to prison over a technical violation of this abomination. We have a LOT of schools in Utah. The permits are inexpensive to get. They save a LOT of concern in these kinds of technical matters.

    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Great information everybody. I just found this forum and it is a wonderful resource. I appreciate everybodies experiences writing about OC. While I do CC, I have yet to OC, but plan on doing so now that I've found this forum and understand all the legal ins and outs.



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    Welcome, pinetree89!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    pinetree89 wrote:
    Great information everybody. I just found this forum and it is a wonderful resource. I appreciate everybodies experiences writing about OC. While I do CC, I have yet to OC, but plan on doing so now that I've found this forum and understand all the legal ins and outs.

    Welcome pinetree89! I think you'll find about everything you need here from advice, resources and friendship. What more do you need?

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