Would you pull?

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I saw the linked article in the VCDL news alert this week (http://www.timesdispatch.com/servle...65379&pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle)

It's basically about a bunch of people being attacked on the 4th by another bunch of people, some with bats. The thing that sticks out to me is that, in VA, a bat is not considered a deadly weapon (don't get me started on that one!), so would you be well within your rights to pull when those bat-wielding fools approached you?

Personally, I think I would, but considering VA law you might not legally be able to. Could you be sued for brandishing? Threatening the ATTACKERS with deadly force?

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I thought about the same thing.

I see a couple of problems. I think it would not be legal unless they were saying that they were going to hurt you with the bat.

I would try to exit the confrontation. Say I'm wrong, apologize, and walk away – doesn’t matter if it is true.

Once the attackers have deployed violence then it would be self-defense. The problem is you have to wait until someone gets hit/hurt, and then you can only defend against that person.

OTH - if I had myfamilythere and someone was making a creditable threat... What did someone say? I would rather face 12 than be carried by 6. When my family is concerned, I would much rather face 12 than be one of the 6.

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GlockMan wrote:

The thing that sticks out to me is that, in VA, a bat is not considered a deadly weapon (don't get me started on that one!), so would you be well within your rights to pull when those bat-wielding fools approached you?

Click to expand...

Is there some kind of case law for this?

My understanding of the law is that ifyou have good reason to believe that you are in danger of suffering death or bodily harm, you my respond with lethal force.

A guy just carrying a gun on his hip and minding his own business should not make you believe your life is danger, but if that same guy started demanding your money, then there would seems to be a credible threat to your safety. Likewise, if a guy is just carry a baseball bat, you can not say with certaintythat he is going to use it to commit a crime, therefor there is no credible threat to your life. However, once the guy with the bat starts to harass you and demand that you relinquishyour personal items, then you should be able to react the same way you would to someone armed with any other weapon.

I am not a lawyer, that is just my opinion and understanding of the law. This is yet another example of why we need the Castle Doctrine toclear up the legal gray areas.

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My thought is that if I feel threatened I will try to get my family and myself to safety. But if I am cornered, and on a bridge with no where to go but down would be cornered to me, I would pull. I would give warning if time permitted and fire if necessary. Hell they wouldn't even need a bat, bare hands can kill.

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You also have to think of the possibility that the attackers might gain access to your weapon if you were incapacitated. This would render the situation even more volatile. I'd draw and fire.

Virginia case law precedents have declared that you are entitled to use deadly force if you consider yourself to be in danger of death or grievous bodily harm and, when assisting someone else, you are entitled to use the same level of force that that person would reasonably expect to use to defend themselves.

This is from the PDO Virginia page:

Date updated: Aug 2, 2005 @ 11:05 am
Virginia has no law on deadly force, per se. Instead Virginia covers deadly force with case law and common law.

Basically a person may stand his ground as long as he was not a part of the initial confrontation. If he was part of the initial confrontation, then he must retreat as far as possible and announce his intentions to leave the confrontation before he can use deadly force to defend himself.

An innocent third party can also be defended with deadly force.

Deadly force can only be used against deadly force, where the victim could be killed or greviously injured.