Carry in restaurants that serve alcohol

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I'm new to the forum and new to Arizona. We've lived here 3 months now. I've been doing my research and meeting andtalking to everyone I can about open carry in AZ. I came from Texas and have CC for as long as its been allowed. There are a few good - sensible parts of the Texas CC law that I wish we had here in AZ. One is carrying in restaurants and bars. Texas has a 51% law which I think makes good sense. If a business makes 51% of its profit from the sell of alcohol you can't carry in there and they have to post a sign to that effect. But in AZ you can't carry open or concealed in any business that serves alcohol to drink - period. Well - that eliminates a lot of restaurants because almost everyone serves some form of alcohol. But - in AZ you can buy hard liquor in every grocery store and drug store. So there are no "liquor stores" like we have in Texas. I've read some discussions about efforts to tweak the AZ law to allow carrying in restaurants. Does anyone know where the legislature is with this or if there are any petitions out there to promote this?

Thanks a lot.

Arizona-Texan

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I'm new to both this site and to carrying. I just recently received my carry permit and have done more concealed carry than open. I usually open carry when out camping/fishing/hunting. I need to become more comfortable in open carry about town though. I would prefer open carry because it just feels more comfortable using an OWB for me. I been looking, but really haven't seen anyone open carrying here in Phoenix. Maybe I just don't get out enough!!

I too wish they would change the restaurant carry law here, sure is a pain. As for any organizations that help promote legislation, you can take a look at the Arizona Citizens Defense League. It seems like they have helped get some favorable laws passed. The web site is http://www.azcdl.org/index.html.

Jim

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Thanks a lot for the info, Phylament! Kingman is a lot smaller than Phoenix - a lot less metropolitan. Maybe that's why there are fewer folks that open carry where you live. I seldom go anywhere that I don't see at least one or two other people open carrying. Walmart seems to be the local gathering place for OC'ing. We usually do our shopping late in the evening and just about anytime there will be at least 1/2 dozen folks wearing sidearms - men and women. I've had a few conversations with some and the general sentiment seems to be if we don't exercise the right to open carry we may lose the privilege. My wife and I have both CC in Texas for years so it was quite a nice change to no longer have to hassle with trying to wear clothing that covers your gun. My wife still carries concealed just because she's used to it and has a special concealed purse. But I've been carrying open now for about two months and generally its completely accepted and most people don't even seem to notice. I've had a couple of folks mention something to me but its always been positive.

I'll go check out the website you recommended.

Thanks again. Nice to find another person from Arizona on the forum.

Arizona-Texan

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Nonsense!

The Arizona Revised Stautes, Sept 2006, (ARS 4-244.29 & 30) prohibit carry in "establishments that serve alcohol for consumption on premises", i.e. bars and restaurants that serve alcohol - "On-sale retailers" as defined in ARS 4-101.24.

There is no prohibition against carrying in places that sell alcohol for off-premises consumption, such as grocery stores or liquor stores, i.e "Off-sale retailers", as defined in ARS 4-101.23.

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Arizona should look to their gun friendly neighboring states. Utah and Nevada both allow carry not only into restaurants that serve alcohol, but even into bars themselves.

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I agree. This Nov we have to get rid of Nappy and get some strong Pro Gun laws. All the goofs from CA and the East moving into AZ soon they will want to be taking some of the gun rights away

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I'm from TN, so I guess I can't affect your legislation, but just know that I'm with you on this. We in TN can't carry anywhere that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises. Why? If they're worried about drunks shooting people, isn't it already a crime to shoot somebody, drunk or not?

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phylament wrote:

As for any organizations that help promote legislation, you can take a look at the Arizona Citizens Defense League. It seems like they have helped get some favorable laws passed. The web site is http://www.azcdl.org/index.html.

Jim

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Jim - Thanks for the plug! I'm the Treasurer of AzCDL and I invite anyone who is not a member to joinus.

I moved to AZ from VA where I could walk into any bar and have a drink openly carrying my gun. When I moved to AZ and found the gun laws were more like CA than VA and that I had lost a ton of rights, I co-founded AzCDL.

Yes! Restaurant Carry is on our list of goals

Trouble is, all prior efforts to allow Restaurant Carry have (1) been restricted to CCW permit holders, (2) forbid alcohol consumption and (3) try to tie the permissible place to carry to the liquor license type.

It's (3) that makes it fall apart. Most restaurants have a full "bar" type license and that would preclude carrying in most restaruants. Compounding the problem is that the laws regarding carrying in places where booze is served is not in the gun laws, it's in the liquor statutes. In order to make this work, the liquor laws would have to be redone and that's an "insurmountable challege" at the moment. Also the Hospitality Industry has a lot more pull than we do - for now.

We'll get there. This year our focus is on redefining open carry and reducing the penatly for non-permit carry (our long term goal is to make the permit optional).

Subscribe to our Alertsand stay up to date on what's going on.

Fred

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Also the Hospitality Industry has a lot more pull than we do - for now.

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OK, so start pointing out to them how much restaurant business they're losing because of the law the way it is (if, in fact, they are...)

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kparker wrote:

Also the Hospitality Industry has a lot more pull than we do - for now.

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OK, so start pointing out to them how much restaurant business they're losing because of the law the way it is (if, in fact, they are...)

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As far as they're concerned they lose business if anyone with a gun shows up. I think they aremore concerned aboutliability issues - that's why we need to use the Legisatlure to move this along.

The bigger AzCDL grows, the more clout we have - please join.

Fred

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azcdlfred wrote:

Jim - Thanks for the plug! I'm the Treasurer of AzCDL and I invite anyone who is not a member to joinus.



Fred

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Fred,

No problem, glad to be of help. By the way, it was nice to meet you at the gun show. I was one of the guys that renewed their membership with you.

Jim

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If I am not wrong, it was a veto from the governor that prevents carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. This is a prime example of power;actually I consider it a :cuss: of power.

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lostone1413 wrote:

I agree. This Nov we have to get rid of Nappy and get some strong Pro Gun laws. All the goofs from CA and the East moving into AZ soon they will want to be taking some of the gun rights away

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Umm, correct me if I'm wrong, but in the early 1990's before all of us California and East Coast people moved in, didn't you guys prohibit concealed carry and you also had all these places off-limits in ARS 13-3102 before we all moved in. It was not until the CCW law passed that people could conceal carry and it also applies an exemption to the prohibited places in 13-3102 whether DPS likes it or not.

Fred moved in from the east coast and helped start a group. I moved from Rhode Island (where I had and still have a license to carry aka. Pistol Permit) and have added my vote to the pro-rights list.

This is the same mentality that Nevada has when the number 1 person stonewalling most pro-RKBA bills is Assembly Judiciary chair Bernie Anderson. Anderson is from Washoe County, not from out of state and not from Clark County/Las Vegas.

It's easy for people to blame their problems on out of staters moving in when they should be looking at their own yard and their own local politicians who they think are so great because they showed up to give a speech when your son made eagle scout.

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Jared wrote:

It's easy for people to blame their problems on out of staters moving in when they should be looking at their own yard and their own local politicians who they think are so great because they showed up to give a speech when your son made eagle scout.

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Complaceny with perceived freedoms has worked againstgun ownersin Arizona for decades.

Fred

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Would it be possible to get the penalty for restaurant carry reduced to a petty offense from a misdemeanor? Not the perfect answer, but it would be better.

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Notso wrote:

Would it be possible to get the penalty for restaurant carry reduced to a petty offense from a misdemeanor? Not the perfect answer, but it would be better.

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We'll take anything we can get as a "nose under the tent" then build from there. The odds of getting ANY Restaurant Carry bill passed with this Governor are pretty much non-existent. But, this is her last term. Meanwhile we can work on decriminilizing (re-leglaizing?) other areas of RKBA.

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http://www.ksat.com/politics/13230553/detail.html

Here is an interesting article on how the Governor of Texas feels on the subject of concealed weapons. Too bad the Arizona governor doesn't have the faith inher lawful citizens that the Texas Governor does in his.

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Ironically, the week before Gov. Perry made this statement, I received a rather positive reply from his office to a letter I had sent seeking his support for our initiatives. TCDL is trying to use this as a spring-board for Open Carry in Texas.

Gary Williams

President, TCDL

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Notso wrote:

http://www.ksat.com/politics/13230553/detail.html

Here is an interesting article on how the Governor of Texas feels on the subject of concealed weapons. Too bad the Arizona governor doesn't have the faith inher lawful citizens that the Texas Governor does in his.

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Yeah - Here's what Nappy has to say in her veto letter of SB 1301:
http://www.azleg.gov/govlettr/48leg/1R/SB1301.pdf

What mystifies me are all the gun owners that tell me she's pro-gun and that's why they voted for her instead of her Republican challenger (who spoke at last year's AzCDL Annual Meeting: http://www.azcdl.org/html/annual_mtg.html)

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Does anyone know if there is any reason why Arizona could not adopt something similar to Texas, where theyallow/limit concealed carry depending on the 50% sale of onsitealcoholic consumption? Is thereanything in the our alcohol licensing laws that would prohibit this, or does the problem just come down to Nappy?