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Thread: Why I Carry Openly...

  1. #1
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    There are a select few states that allow it's citizens to carry their weapons out in the open but there is a FEWER select few citizens that choose to exercise that right for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

    There are quite a fewestablishments nowadays that choose to post signs that prohibit the carry of firearms, openly or concealed, within their walls. This is another of the many things that gives me deep and lasting indigestion. If you don't want to be robbed or have a disgruntled employee take out his frustration on your patrons, why do you create such a "hazard-free environment" for those that might perpetrate such a crime? Do you seriously think that a guy intent on robbing your store, or worse, is going to walk up to your door, see your "No Guns" sign and say, "Darn!, I sooooooo wanted to rob this place but the sign saysI can't bring my gun inso I guess I'll just have to go somewhere else."? No, by posting that sign, you have pretty much assured the criminal that there is little, if any, chance that he will be confronted. When trained, credible, responsible citizens carry their weapons in your store and give you their business, you should be grateful that, at least for the time that they are present, your business is protected. At least from violent crime. Most of uswill not shoot someone for stealing money as it is replaceable and probably insured. However, I have never met a legitimate gun-toter that would not intervene if someone were to threaten innocents or start shooting.

    I think that many post those signs because offear of theimage that some of the patrons might get, notfor liability reasons.

    It is my opinion that if thosewho do carry regularly WOULD carry openly more often, it would help to desensitize thosewhom some people are afraid they are going to offend. Well, it offends ME when someone is offended by my carrying (which is RARELY an issue here in NM). I have my rights just like they have theirs. They have the right to get up and go eat somewhere else if they happen to come into a restaurant where I am eating. They have the right to run home screaming if they see me walking down the street and I am armed. I, on the other hand, have the right to do anything that they can do and their being there doesn't affect me one way or the other. The reason that gun rights are in the shape that they are in is because we gunowners continuously pander to "them" and try to compromise to a point that is OK with "them". We walk around and hide what we do or give certain rights away to retain others. That's not freedom to me.

    I don't "flaunt" it as some havesaid. I think that if one is going to carry openly that they should dress neatly and wear your gear professionally and conservatively. I don't think that it's appropriate to wear a 7.5" Super Blackhawk downtown in cheap nylon Wal-Mart holster. Yes, occasionally when I come in from hunting or something and I'm carrying a .44, I may stop to get a Coke or gas or something but I'm not gonna take my gun off just because someone else may not approve of it but what I wear daily is a Glock 23 in a Blade Tech belt holster with my shirt tail tucked in. I dress neatly and there is nothing threatening about my appearance (unless you feel threatened by someone that 6"4", 245 pound and wearing a gun ). Once in a while, I get a question or two but I have yet to experience the fear and panic that some claim is going to happen.

    Occassionally, someone tells me how muchthat they value the 2nd amendment. Well, so do I...as it was written. Not as they would have me to accept it. Having said all that, I do believe that there are a very few places where it may not be appropriate to wear openly like church or some business meetings or picking the kids up at the Boys and Girls Club. In those few places, I do carry but it is concealed. If it's an impromptu occasion, I simply untuck my shirt and let it cover the gun. If it's planned, like church, I wear a Glock 27 in a Blade Tech IWB and a jacket or vest.

    I don't "flaunt" it, make a big deal out of it or handle it in any manner when in public and I have NEVER had any problem.

    I WILL NOT CRAWL AROUND AND EXERCISE MY GOD-GIVEN RIGHTS ONLY WHEN IT IS ACCEPTABLE WITH SOMEONE ELSE OR WHERE THEY CANNOT SEE!

    There are thosewho will not stand up for a passing flag unless a few people around them do. Well I am the one around them that is first to stand. I could care less what everyone around me does. I have a man to face every day in the mirror and someone else to face when I leave this world. I plan to be able to walk uprightly before Him and say that I have done the best I could to uphold and exercise the rights and freedoms that I was blessed with at my birth.


    "All those in favor of losing their rights, please do nothing!"

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    Desertscout wrote:
    There are a select few states that allow it's citizens to carry their weapons out in the open
    Actually, not true. 43 states permit open carry. most quite liberally, and without any license.

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    There are 31 states that either do NOT allow OC or are so restricted as to be only token legal. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't carry in your car, you can't carry openly. If you have to get a license to OC it is NOT a right. It is a privilege. As I stated before, there are only a very few states where there exists a RIGH to carry OC. The list below may not be perfect but it is pretty close.

    Alabama allows OC but with restrictions,Arkansas, California, technically;Colorado DOES but it is dangerous and NOT allowed in all jurisdictions, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, Wisconsin and Utah.

    Editedto add: I can see by my last sentence in the first paragraph how confusing I made this post. The list I made are states that, for the most part, do NOT allow OC.

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    Actually OpenCarry.org has done an EXCELLENT JOB in developing its MAP and definining what the true status is for each of the 50 states. Worth using and updating.

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    Desertscout wrote

    Alabama allows OC but with restrictions,Arkansas, California, technically;Colorado DOES but it is dangerous and NOT allowed in all jurisdictions, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, Wisconsin and Utah.
    I can tell you with absolute certainty that OC is 100% illegal in Florida.


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    I see where the mix-up was...

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    Desertscout wrote:
    Maybe you should contact the State of Florida and let them know that their statutes are wrong...

    790.053 Open carrying of weapons.--
    (1)Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.
    (2)A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:
    (a)A self-defense chemical spray.
    (b)A nonlethal stun gun or remote stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device which does not fire a dart or projectile and is designed solely for defensive purposes.
    (3)Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

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    My mistake. I read the original post wrong concerning FL.

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    EagleFiveZero wrote:
    Actually OpenCarry.org has done an EXCELLENT JOB in developing its MAP and definining what the true status is for each of the 50 states. Worth using and updating.
    I'll agree that they have done a great job but that doesn't change the fact there are some inconsistencies. I'm not trying to pee in ya'll's Post Toasties here, I'm just letting you know. Updating would be good.



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    Regarding Utah. I talked to BCI this morning and, while the law is silent on it making it technically legal, BCI advises that you do NOT.

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    Desertscout wrote:
    Regarding Utah. I talked to BCI this morning and, while the law is silent on it making it technically legal, BCI advises that you do NOT.
    Interesting - thanks for sharing! Does this mean that we should start a push for getting open carry officially on the laws for Utah? Or maybe it is best to stay "under the radar" for now?

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    "Technically legal?" That's what they call conduct not prohibited by law?

    Give me a break.

    It's also NOT illegal in UT to open Israeli carry a handgun either. Technicality?No, the statute is written very carefully.

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    I don't know. While it would be nice if the laws were clearer, you may not want to stir anything up and lose what you have. I get asked in almost every class whether it's OK to OC in UT or not so I put it to rest this morning.

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    The statute is unclear, NOT carefully written and says nothing about OC. BCI said that their INTENT is to allow CC with a permit, NOT OC but the way it's worded, they cannot prosecute for OC and therefore, reluctantly allow it. Some LEO's will have different opinions than others. That doesn't make the law any different.

    If you talk to someone else other than the guy I talked to, maybe you'll get a different story. They are not, at this time, actively trying to change anything so anyone that wants to OC in UT should feel free.

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    Everyday, everyone should get out of bed and see a sign in their bedroom reading:

    "OpenCarry is presumptively legal unless specifically prohibited by state statute."

    How can the UT statutes be any more clear on what conduct is prohibited?

    "76-10-504. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
    (1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2) and (3):
    (a) a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, which is not a firearm on his person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in a place other than his residence, property, or business under his control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor; and
    (b) a person without a valid concealed firearm permit who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a firearm and that contains no ammunition is guilty of a class B misdemeanor, but if the firearm contains ammunition the person is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
    (2) A person who carries concealed a sawed-off shotgun or a sawed-off rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
    (3) If the concealed firearm is used in the commission of a violent felony as defined in Section 76-3-203.5, and the person is a party to the offense, the person is guilty of a second degree felony.
    (4) Nothing in Subsection (1) shall prohibit a person engaged in the lawful taking of protected or unprotected wildlife as defined in Title 23, Wildlife Resources Code, from carrying a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm with a barrel length of four inches or greater as long as the taking of wildlife does not occur:
    (a) within the limits of a municipality in violation of that municipality's ordinances; or
    (b) upon the highways of the state as defined in Section 41-6a-102."


    "76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
    (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
    (a) in or on a vehicle;
    (b) on any public street; or
    (c) in a posted prohibited area.
    (2) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor."

    "76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
    (1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
    (a) a United States marshal;
    (b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
    (c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
    (d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
    (g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
    (i) unloaded; and
    (ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
    (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
    (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
    (b) by another state or county."






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    You don't have to make an attempt to be a smart-ass, pal. I'm not arguing what the law says. I said it was unclear. BCI said it unclear to them too. You should feel privileged that it all makes sense to you but to others it may not.

    I just posted what BCI told me. If you want to go there and OC and see if thewy say anything to you, knock yourself out. Being technically legal doesn't necessarily make it smart to do. OC is legal inseveral statestoo butmay stillget you arrested under other laws. In a FEW states, as I posted above, OC is specifically addressed and there are no problems. Someone would have to be on drugs to assume that you could OC in 43 statesand not get hassled or even prosecuted for it in some of them. Regardles of if the law is is silent, some LEO's kind of make it up as they go along. Yes, it may be legal but that doesn't mean that it may not cost you time and money to prove it.

    Take a chill pill and don't be so defensive. I THINK we are on the same side here.

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    Desertscout,

    There is much in what you say.

    Nonetheless, might I appeal to you not to get too steamed up over this issue.

    We all know, I think, that laws tend to be subject to different interpretations by different people. Mike is merely pointing out to us the FACTS, and he is vastly experienced in this field, having been involved with the open carry issue for quite some time.

    We are indeed, as you say, all on the same side here. Let us agree to disagree from time to time, but let us do so like gentlemen.

    Respectfully,

    TrueBrit.

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    I thank you for the reminder TrueBrit and I will try to do better.

    However, I am also "vastly experienced" in this field and I do not need his "yelling" and attempting to tell me what the law says. I know that. I have been a teaching classes on this for several years and am well-versed in it. I was simply stating what I was told by BCI.

    Mike first told me that there were 43 states that allowed OC. I reckon his definition of OC and mine is quite a bit different. In many of those states, you can't even carry in your own car. There are also a few states that, while "technically" legal,it is a known fact that you will hassled for doing it so what the hell good is it to be legal?

    I think Mike is confusing a right with a privilege.

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    Just a thought here. Could it be that a few more "Champs" type incidents, which put open carry well and truly on the map in VA, might provoke the desired results in other states?Gun friendly attorneys can be found, if necessary, and if lawsuits have to be reluctantly filed, then make them HARD-HITTING ones.

    2 cents worth from the mad Englishman,

    TrueBrit.

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    I don't know what the "Champs" incident was about but I get your point about the lawsuits. I agree that if there were enough people around that were willing and able to do that, that it would probably make a difference, at least in some areas. However, that kind of fight is generally expensive and most of us cannot pursue those avenues. There are also people like me that can't afford to lose. If I undertook something like that and lost, I would probably also lose my FFL which provides my sole source of income right now.

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    Desertscout wrote:
    There are a select few states that allow it's citizens to carry their weapons out in the open but there is a FEWER select few citizens that choose to exercise that right for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

    There are quite a fewestablishments nowadays that choose to post signs that prohibit the carry of firearms, openly or concealed, within their walls. This is another of the many things that gives me deep and lasting indigestion. If you don't want to be robbed or have a disgruntled employee take out his frustration on your patrons, why do you create such a "hazard-free environment" for those that might perpetrate such a crime? Do you seriously think that a guy intent on robbing your store, or worse, is going to walk up to your door, see your "No Guns" sign and say, "Darn!, I sooooooo wanted to rob this place but the sign saysI can't bring my gun inso I guess I'll just have to go somewhere else."? No, by posting that sign, you have pretty much assured the criminal that there is little, if any, chance that he will be confronted. When trained, credible, responsible citizens carry their weapons in your store and give you their business, you should be grateful that, at least for the time that they are present, your business is protected. At least from violent crime. Most of uswill not shoot someone for stealing money as it is replaceable and probably insured. However, I have never met a legitimate gun-toter that would not intervene if someone were to threaten innocents or start shooting.

    I think that many post those signs because offear of theimage that some of the patrons might get, notfor liability reasons.

    It is my opinion that if thosewho do carry regularly WOULD carry openly more often, it would help to desensitize thosewhom some people are afraid they are going to offend. Well, it offends ME when someone is offended by my carrying (which is RARELY an issue here in NM). I have my rights just like they have theirs. They have the right to get up and go eat somewhere else if they happen to come into a restaurant where I am eating. They have the right to run home screaming if they see me walking down the street and I am armed. I, on the other hand, have the right to do anything that they can do and their being there doesn't affect me one way or the other. The reason that gun rights are in the shape that they are in is because we gunowners continuously pander to "them" and try to compromise to a point that is OK with "them". We walk around and hide what we do or give certain rights away to retain others. That's not freedom to me.

    I don't "flaunt" it as some havesaid. I think that if one is going to carry openly that they should dress neatly and wear your gear professionally and conservatively. I don't think that it's appropriate to wear a 7.5" Super Blackhawk downtown in cheap nylon Wal-Mart holster. Yes, occasionally when I come in from hunting or something and I'm carrying a .44, I may stop to get a Coke or gas or something but I'm not gonna take my gun off just because someone else may not approve of it but what I wear daily is a Glock 23 in a Blade Tech belt holster with my shirt tail tucked in. I dress neatly and there is nothing threatening about my appearance (unless you feel threatened by someone that 6"4", 245 pound and wearing a gun ). Once in a while, I get a question or two but I have yet to experience the fear and panic that some claim is going to happen.

    Occassionally, someone tells me how muchthat they value the 2nd amendment. Well, so do I...as it was written. Not as they would have me to accept it. Having said all that, I do believe that there are a very few places where it may not be appropriate to wear openly like church or some business meetings or picking the kids up at the Boys and Girls Club. In those few places, I do carry but it is concealed. If it's an impromptu occasion, I simply untuck my shirt and let it cover the gun. If it's planned, like church, I wear a Glock 27 in a Blade Tech IWB and a jacket or vest.

    I don't "flaunt" it, make a big deal out of it or handle it in any manner when in public and I have NEVER had any problem.

    I WILL NOT CRAWL AROUND AND EXERCISE MY GOD-GIVEN RIGHTS ONLY WHEN IT IS ACCEPTABLE WITH SOMEONE ELSE OR WHERE THEY CANNOT SEE!

    There are thosewho will not stand up for a passing flag unless a few people around them do. Well I am the one around them that is first to stand. I could care less what everyone around me does. I have a man to face every day in the mirror and someone else to face when I leave this world. I plan to be able to walk uprightly before Him and say that I have done the best I could to uphold and exercise the rights and freedoms that I was blessed with at my birth.


    "All those in favor of losing their rights, please do nothing!"
    You da man, Desertscout!!! Keep doing what you're doing.:X

    2nd Amendment......Use it..........Or, lose it!!!
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    I open carry just about everyday in the SL valley, from Draper to north SL. Even in down town SL where Rocky's bastion of liberal thinking has gotten the best of the city. So far, not a single person or LEO has stopped me or questioned me.



    Sometimes I have my two girls with me and I have gotten very strange looks. Mostly, "Why is the dad so happy? He has a gun and people with guns are all supposed to be mad....right?" type looks. It is very disconcerting for some people to see a happy smiling man with a gun for some reason. I guess it does not fit the media sterotype.



    But either way, so far (the last year or so) it has worked well and I have had some people nod and smile. So I for one do not fear open carry here.





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    desertscout-------------I didn't see Ohio as a listed OC state, and I beleive that the OSC, and newly passed HB347 says it is, or soon will be, but I think it always been, just not legal in some city because of their local ordiances.

    All the BS problems here will be gone on or about March 15th,2007

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    Why I open carry... Well a G21 is kind of big to conceal, OK it isn't. Well I just don't feel I have to give the state of New Mexico, My fingerprints, my life history , my 1st, 2nd and 3rd born for the" privilege" to hide my weapon in my pants where the Constitution of the State of New Mexco, allows me to carry open. My weapon goes with me almost every where I go, if it isnot allowed I generally don't go there. Work is an exception but me and some other employees are working with the chief of security to provide a secre area in which to secure our weapons while at work. He is in favor but the administraiton is balking but we are working on it. On another forum a thread like this came up and one of the arguements was something like this. I don't go around with 800 bucks hanging oout of my pocket in plain sight. That invites someone to come and take it from you. Why would I do that with my 800 dollar Kimber?
    I guess the main reason I carry open is the ease of access, it makes me dress a bit better when I am not in scrubs, I walk a bit straighter and am much more polite,And it is my right to be able to. I need not ask permission to do so.

    Chuck

    Code:
    -- 
    38. Vápnum s*num 
    skal-a maðr velli á 
    feti ganga framar, 
    þv* at óv*st er at vita 
    nær verðr á vegum úti 
    geirs um þörf guma
    
    38. Let a man never stir on his road a step
    without his weapons of war; 
    for unsure is the knowing when need shall arise 
    of a spear on the way without
    The Havamal

  25. #25
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    Y'all can argue about the technicalities in this state or that. I don't consider any state open carry UNLESS I am relatively free from harassment and restrictive laws. As far as I am concerned only the gold states are open carry b/c there is legal protection and preemption!

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