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Thread: Is open carry a form of activism-- or simply a choice for you?

  1. #1
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Since I live in California, open carry to me, takes on a whole different aspect than simply a choice to exert your right to keep and bear arms.

    I cannot take it for granted, because in most areas-- it isnt 'granted'. And even in the areas where the law doesnt prohibit it, resistance, harrassment, detainment, unlawful search, seizure, and arrest are all possible.

    This is what makes me believe that this for some, is more activism than a choice between two forms of carry. If it is activism to you, do you have a strategy? Do you have an objective in mind? Do you have literature you distribute? Is this a means of recuitment?

    In my set of circumstances, Im looking ata mountain of opposition to my objective. Ive defined my short term goal as recruiting like-minded, law-abiding inidividuals to petition the county sheriff to issue 'Open Carry' permits, since California law (surprisingly) gives descretion to sheriff and municipal police to issue such permits in counties of less than 200,000 as of the last decennial census. Last census placed our population at 164,000, and by 2010 its likely that this window of opportunity will close, unless the law (PC-12031) is changed.

    Im curious to hear what other activists have to say, what tactics and literature they use--- and certainly if there's another Californian participating here.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  2. #2
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    When I open carry I do not do it as an activist. In fact, I have no wish to draw attention to myself. I openly carry because it is generally more comfortable andcan carry a more effective weapon. On occasion I am asked a question by a citizen and will answer their questions. Most of the time people pay no attention, and that is what I prefer.

  3. #3
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    I'm pretty much with Brent on this one. The ease and convenience of open carry tends to outweigh the rigmarole that all too often accompanies concealed carry, suitable clothes, guns, holsters etc. I'm too cheap for all that stuff!

    A coat over the rig in cold weather, hence the CDWL. No more, no less.

    Nevertheless, while I am no activist at heart, I realise the importance of excercising rights, which tend to become lost if unused. If it helps citizens and cops to become used to the lawful carriage of arms by ordinary Joes, then that is all to the good.

    Kudos and salaams to our Californian comrade Condition Three,however. He is a better man than I am to buck the tiger in his home state,somewhat notorious in the annals of gun-grabbing states.

    Well done, mate!

    TrueBrit.

  4. #4
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    ConditionThree wrote:
    Since I live in California, open carry to me, takes on a whole different aspect than simply a choice to exert your right to keep and bear arms.

    I cannot take it for granted, because in most areas-- it isnt 'granted'. And even in the areas where the law doesnt prohibit it, resistance, harrassment, detainment, unlawful search, seizure, and arrest are all possible.
    What authorities can you cite supporting your claims of imminent harassment, etc. for lawful open carry in California?

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Here in Virginia, I open carry for convenience first, to exercise a right second, and to make a point, third.

    We have this silly law that says if you go into a restaurant, club, etc. that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises, you must carry openly if you carry. I have yet to find a way to carry concealed but that quickly and easily converts to an open carry rig if I decide while I'm out to go to a restaurant. (Yes, I have an idea for a convertible waist pack, but I can't see it being marketable in most places)

    Second, I have the right to do so. Unlike in many places, this right is taken for granted in Virginia. Those are the kinds of rights we lose quickly.

    And third, it's a great chance to educate people. But that's not my primary purpose - I'm far from an evangelist (though some who know me might disagree in this instance )
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  6. #6
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    For me it is more of a choice also, and not activism. With Washington's poorly worded brandishing law, OC is always a risky propisition (depending upon where you are).

  7. #7
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    ConditionThree wrote:
    Since I live in California, open carry to me, takes on a whole different aspect than simply a choice to exert your right to keep and bear arms.

    I cannot take it for granted, because in most areas-- it isnt 'granted'. And even in the areas where the law doesnt prohibit it, resistance, harrassment, detainment, unlawful search, seizure, and arrest are all possible.
    What authorities can you cite supporting your claims of imminent harassment, etc. for lawful open carry in California?
    I've been doing some preliminary homework. One of the things I did was to talk to some folks (neither of which were sworn officers.)at the sheriffs office. I began by asking if they could tell mewhat the definition of 'incorporated' was. They asked what the context of my inquiry wasand I explained that I'd been researching the law and discovered that there was no law against open carry in unicorporated areas. This was met with a great deal of resistance- and they began explaining that I could open carry on my property or at my place of business and that would be fine... They even went to the extent of parsing the word 'incorporated' saying that it meant 'populated' areas... Which isnt what the text ofpc-12031 says. They informed me that if I did open carry I would certainly be contacted by law enforcement and probably be arrested. I didnt ask them under what code I would be charged, as it didnt appear to me that I would obtain accurate information.

    This exchange led me to consult a local attorney, who confirmed my findings- that there is no law prohibiting open carry in unincorporated areas.

    At this point I'm contemplating contacting the sheriff's offfice again and speaking to a sworn officer or the sheriff elect and ask specifically how they are going to respond with a lawful citizen openly carrying a loaded firearm and what code they would charge the citizen should they decide to arrest them.

    See-it's this risk that is letting me know that this isnt simply about a choice, but about actually taking back my rights from people who wish to restrain me from exercizing them.

    I would like to open carry 100% of the time for ease, comfort, peace of mind,... Specifically, CC gear has me down because its really hot here (112 deg yesterday and today), the fannypack cannot be accessed at all if you are seat belted in your vehicle, itcannot secure your weapon during 'toilet duties', and I feel like Im being put in the 'back of the bus' on the basis that someone might be offended by my exposed firearm, and am required to hide it as if I am the criminal- This, despite the background checks, fingerprinting, and other forth and fifthamendment invasions I endured to get a CCW permit.

    And dont get me started on why I think that process was as much 'infringement' as being forbidden to OC...


    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  8. #8
    Arizonatexan
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    I come from a non-OC state - Texas. I recently moved to Arizona - one of the best OC States! After researching the laws in Arizona I immediately began OC'ing. It's a profound privilege and a right that Arizonans are proud of. AZ has a heritage of being a gun-friendly State. Although we have a pretty good CC law in Texas, many of my friends back home would love to be able to OC. There is some discussion in other places on this forum about grassroots activism and the effort it would take to get OC in Texas. You have to start somewhere. I believe if you come from or live in a non-OC State it does require a form of activism. ConditionThree I hope you are not the lone wolf crying in the wilderness. I for one am going to try to rally as much support as I can among my Texas buddies. The more of us that come together and the better organized we can be the better our case will be listened to. I don't know if Texas will ever become an OC State, but I'd like to think I had some small part in making it happen - if it does. Most of the folks I've talked to in AZ don't take their right to OC for granted or lightly. They know that they could easily lose the right if they don't exercise it. I like to believe that the governing bodies will listen to and bend to pressure if enough of us come together in support of OC'ing.

    Arizona-Texan

  9. #9
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    The whole concealed carry deal is somewhat irksome,IMHO.

    Law-abiding folks are having to adopt the furtive behaviour of criminals, as though the carriage of defensive weaponry was in some way dishonourable and unwholesome.

    Most of the 48 states have had 10 years or more of concealed carry,without problems. Time that open carry, with all of its advantages, was universally accepted.This will not happen overnight,and there will still be times that concealed carry might be more prudent, but the more open carry that is seen, the more acceptable it will become.

    I suspect that money is what matters to most states,however, so we may just have to accept the Tennesee deal, and pay to carry open or concealed.

    TrueBrit.

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