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VA Open Carry
- Thread starter Taclead
- Start date
longwatch
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
I'm no lawyer, but my lay understanding is that you have to have standing (i.e. your rights violated) before you can file a case.
I'm no lawyer, but my lay understanding is that you have to have standing (i.e. your rights violated) before you can file a case.
imported post
So does being afraid to walk into a post office count?
What is the mechanism for getting some clarity on these gray areas? I know that state entitys can ask the attourney general for an opinion. How does a common citizen get similar relief without being at risk?
So does being afraid to walk into a post office count?
What is the mechanism for getting some clarity on these gray areas? I know that state entitys can ask the attourney general for an opinion. How does a common citizen get similar relief without being at risk?
vtme_grad98
Regular Member
imported post
Taclead wrote:
This is a good example of the fact that many gun instructors (like most of the people selling guns in Hampton Roads) don't understand the state laws. When I took my concealed carry class, my instructor stated with absolute certainty that you could not open carry in a city with a population of 160,000 or more. That was based on a gross misinterpretation of the following Virginia Code:
§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public (i) in any city with a population of 160,000 or more or (ii) in any county having an urban county executive form of government or any county or city surrounded thereby or adjacent thereto or in any county having a county manager form of government.
The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
The exemptions set forth in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section.
Based on the bolded portion of that code, this code does not apply to most firearms that one would open carry. As far as I know, the guys at Bob's still don't believe that the state legislature finally made all of the grandfathered city/county gun laws invalid. The only way to be really sure if there's a state law against something is to go to the source (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC) and read title 18.2 yourself. On a side note, does anyone here remember which section of the Virginia Code contained the part that got rid of all city/county gun laws?
Taclead wrote:
This is a good example of the fact that many gun instructors (like most of the people selling guns in Hampton Roads) don't understand the state laws. When I took my concealed carry class, my instructor stated with absolute certainty that you could not open carry in a city with a population of 160,000 or more. That was based on a gross misinterpretation of the following Virginia Code:
§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public (i) in any city with a population of 160,000 or more or (ii) in any county having an urban county executive form of government or any county or city surrounded thereby or adjacent thereto or in any county having a county manager form of government.
The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
The exemptions set forth in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section.
Based on the bolded portion of that code, this code does not apply to most firearms that one would open carry. As far as I know, the guys at Bob's still don't believe that the state legislature finally made all of the grandfathered city/county gun laws invalid. The only way to be really sure if there's a state law against something is to go to the source (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC) and read title 18.2 yourself. On a side note, does anyone here remember which section of the Virginia Code contained the part that got rid of all city/county gun laws?
vtme_grad98
Regular Member
imported post
Nevermind, I found it.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-915
§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.
A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.
Nothing in this section shall prohibit a locality from adopting workplace rules relating to terms and conditions of employment of the workforce. Nothing in this section shall prohibit a law-enforcement officer, as defined in § 9.1-101 from acting within the scope of his duties.
The provisions of this section applicable to a locality shall also apply to any authority or to a local governmental entity, including a department or agency, but not including any local or regional jail or juvenile detention facility.
B. Any local ordinance, resolution or motion adopted prior to the effective date of this act governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, other than those expressly authorized by statute, is invalid.
(1987, c. 629, § 15.1-29.15; 1988, c. 392; 1997, cc. 550, 587; 2002, c. 484; 2003, c. 943; 2004, cc. 837, 923.)
Nevermind, I found it.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-915
§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.
A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.
Nothing in this section shall prohibit a locality from adopting workplace rules relating to terms and conditions of employment of the workforce. Nothing in this section shall prohibit a law-enforcement officer, as defined in § 9.1-101 from acting within the scope of his duties.
The provisions of this section applicable to a locality shall also apply to any authority or to a local governmental entity, including a department or agency, but not including any local or regional jail or juvenile detention facility.
B. Any local ordinance, resolution or motion adopted prior to the effective date of this act governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, other than those expressly authorized by statute, is invalid.
(1987, c. 629, § 15.1-29.15; 1988, c. 392; 1997, cc. 550, 587; 2002, c. 484; 2003, c. 943; 2004, cc. 837, 923.)
Smurfologist
Regular Member
imported post
vtme_grad98 wrote:
2nd Amendment...........Use it...........Or, lose it!!:X
vtme_grad98 wrote:
Just so I am clear, I can put a round in the chamber of my Beretta PX-4 Storm, have 20 rounds in mymagazine, and be totally legal if I OC, right? My mind tells me yes because in the scenario I described, there will always be "20 rounds" in the magazine, but, Ijust want to be sure. Please help me to understand all of this.
2nd Amendment...........Use it...........Or, lose it!!:X
longwatch
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
Just to be sure it's the capacity thats illegal in some places not how many rounds are in the magazine that is in the weapon. However, a centerfire pistol or rifle with a 20 round magazine plus 1 in the chamber, that isn't threaded or equipped with a folding stock is not subject to 18.2-287.4. Always remember if you have a CHP you are exempt too. See this link for a list of the localities were this law is in effect. http://www.virginia1774.org/GeospatialEnforcementof18.2-287.html
Other exempt weapons that exceed the magazine or feature restrictions of the law- Any rimfire weapon may be carried with a 20+ round magazine, folding stock or threaded muzzle. So a Ruger 10/22 with a 50 round magazine or Calico M100 carbine or pistol with a 100 round magazine and folding stock are legal.
A pump action centerfire rifle like the Remington 7615 Police with a 30 round magazine. Legal because it isn't semiautomatic.
I feel because of the phrase "equipped at the time of the offense" one could carry a weapon with a 20 round magazine in the weapon but also have 30 rounders in reserve. But I'm not 100% sure if that is "equipped" or not. A similar question I have is if carry of an unloaded folding stock rifle but with full magazines available would be considered "equipped'.
Fortunately this topic is not overly pertinent for us. I don't know any of us who make a habit of carrying firearms subject to this law. People have been hung up because of 18.2-278.4 but not because their weapons were illegal (Starbucks incident). But it is fun to game out.
Just to be sure it's the capacity thats illegal in some places not how many rounds are in the magazine that is in the weapon. However, a centerfire pistol or rifle with a 20 round magazine plus 1 in the chamber, that isn't threaded or equipped with a folding stock is not subject to 18.2-287.4. Always remember if you have a CHP you are exempt too. See this link for a list of the localities were this law is in effect. http://www.virginia1774.org/GeospatialEnforcementof18.2-287.html
Other exempt weapons that exceed the magazine or feature restrictions of the law- Any rimfire weapon may be carried with a 20+ round magazine, folding stock or threaded muzzle. So a Ruger 10/22 with a 50 round magazine or Calico M100 carbine or pistol with a 100 round magazine and folding stock are legal.
A pump action centerfire rifle like the Remington 7615 Police with a 30 round magazine. Legal because it isn't semiautomatic.
I feel because of the phrase "equipped at the time of the offense" one could carry a weapon with a 20 round magazine in the weapon but also have 30 rounders in reserve. But I'm not 100% sure if that is "equipped" or not. A similar question I have is if carry of an unloaded folding stock rifle but with full magazines available would be considered "equipped'.
Fortunately this topic is not overly pertinent for us. I don't know any of us who make a habit of carrying firearms subject to this law. People have been hung up because of 18.2-278.4 but not because their weapons were illegal (Starbucks incident). But it is fun to game out.
Smurfologist
Regular Member
imported post
longwatch wrote:
I have to say.......I'm even more confused than before. More questions:
1) What do you mean by "centerfire/rimfire pistol or rifle.....that isn't threaded (is this pertaining to the barrel/muzzle)?"
2) Does 18.2-287.4 mean I can't carry my Beretta PX-4 Storm 9mm in the listed cities in the 20+1 state (can I disregard 18.2-287.4 if question #3 is true)?
3) Are you suggesting that since I have a VA CCP that I am exempt from 18.2-287.4 if I OC (I believe I am if I CC - you can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)?
4) What "Starbucks incident" do you speak of?
I just want to be (crystal) clear on this.
2nd Amendment...........Use it..........Or, lose it!!:X
longwatch wrote:
Just to be sure it's the capacity thats illegal in some places not how many rounds are in the magazine that is in the weapon. However, a centerfire pistol or rifle with a 20 round magazine plus 1 in the chamber, that isn't threaded or equipped with a folding stock is not subject to 18.2-287.4. Always remember if you have a CHP you are exempt too. See this link for a list of the localities were this law is in effect. http://www.virginia1774.org/GeospatialEnforcementof18.2-287.html
Other exempt weapons that exceed the magazine or feature restrictions of the law- Any rimfire weapon may be carried with a 20+ round magazine, folding stock or threaded muzzle. So a Ruger 10/22 with a 50 round magazine or Calico M100 carbine or pistol with a 100 round magazine and folding stock are legal.
A pump action centerfire rifle like the Remington 7615 Police with a 30 round magazine. Legal because it isn't semiautomatic.
I feel because of the phrase "equipped at the time of the offense" one could carry a weapon with a 20 round magazine in the weapon but also have 30 rounders in reserve. But I'm not 100% sure if that is "equipped" or not. A similar question I have is if carry of an unloaded folding stock rifle but with full magazines available would be considered "equipped'.
Fortunately this topic is not overly pertinent for us. I don't know any of us who make a habit of carrying firearms subject to this law. People have been hung up because of 18.2-278.4 but not because their weapons were illegal (Starbucks incident). But it is fun to game out.
I have to say.......I'm even more confused than before. More questions:
1) What do you mean by "centerfire/rimfire pistol or rifle.....that isn't threaded (is this pertaining to the barrel/muzzle)?"
2) Does 18.2-287.4 mean I can't carry my Beretta PX-4 Storm 9mm in the listed cities in the 20+1 state (can I disregard 18.2-287.4 if question #3 is true)?
3) Are you suggesting that since I have a VA CCP that I am exempt from 18.2-287.4 if I OC (I believe I am if I CC - you can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)?
4) What "Starbucks incident" do you speak of?
I just want to be (crystal) clear on this.
2nd Amendment...........Use it..........Or, lose it!!:X
VAopencarry
Regular Member
imported post
Smurf,
The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol ..........
the statute does not distinguish between open and concealed carry.
Smurf,
The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol ..........
the statute does not distinguish between open and concealed carry.
longwatch
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
Yeah maybe my post was overly complicated. Getting specific, your PX-4 Storm pistol with a 20 round magazine and unthreaded barrel, is not prohibited by 18.2-287.4. Also because you have a CHP you are exempt from the law should you choose to put a 30 round magazine in your pistol.
Yeah maybe my post was overly complicated. Getting specific, your PX-4 Storm pistol with a 20 round magazine and unthreaded barrel, is not prohibited by 18.2-287.4. Also because you have a CHP you are exempt from the law should you choose to put a 30 round magazine in your pistol.
Smurfologist
Regular Member
imported post
longwatch wrote:
ThanksLongwatch and VAopencarry!! You both have made this issue crystal clear to me. I am adding another round in my magazine right now. By the way, do you know where I can get that 30 round magazine from (smile)?
2nd Amendment........Use it...........Or, lose it!!:X
longwatch wrote:
ThanksLongwatch and VAopencarry!! You both have made this issue crystal clear to me. I am adding another round in my magazine right now. By the way, do you know where I can get that 30 round magazine from (smile)?
2nd Amendment........Use it...........Or, lose it!!:X