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Thread: Need input for California specific information packet.

  1. #1
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Okay, part ofmystrategy to normalize OC in California will be to petition the local sheriff to issue open carry permits so that OC will be lawful not only in rural areas, but also the incorporated cities in the county. Another part is to spread the word about OpenCarry.org to other prospective members. With this in mind, Ive started putting together something I can hand out. The following is what I have slapped together so far- Im open comments, critizism,... be gentle.



    The Benefits of Open Carry


    Open carry is a visual deterrent to would be criminals.

    Criminals while opportunistic, still assess risks, profile their victims, and tend to avoid ‘hard’ targets. A conspicuously armed citizen raises the stakes in any attempt a criminal might make. Seeing such people conduct their daily business would make a perpetrator far more wary, than among a population carrying concealed or one that was unarmed.



    [size=The Wright-Rossi felon survey conducted through a grant from the Department of Justice in 1982-1983 revealed the following;][/size]



    56% of the felons surveyed agreed that "A criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun;"



    [size=A 57% majority agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."][/size]

    [size=][/size]

    Nearly 40% said there was at least one time when the criminal "decided not to do a crime because [he] knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun."



    Open carry increases law enforcements situational awareness.

    Every officer must assume that everyone they encounter could be armed. A citizen, with the firearm displayed plainly in their holster, when both their hands and the weapon are visible, leaves no room for interpretation of their movements. The conscious decision to openly arm themselves also indicates they aren’t likely a criminal, as most criminals rely on keeping their activities secret. In places where a license or permit is required to carry openly, an officer can be assured (after checking the permit), that the citizen has already been subjected to the scrutiny of a background check and fingerprinting- something a common criminal will not submit to.



    Open carry is tactically superior and safer than concealed carry.

    Police do not conceal their firearms as it is expected they will be armed and it would increase their draw response time leaving them vulnerable to attack. The citizen deserves no less opportunity to defend themselves from assailants. It is already tactically difficult to draw against an assailant who already has a weapon in hand; fumbling with clothing or a waist pack would make it impossible for a practical defense in such a situation. With a firearm secured in a waist pack it is impossible to draw while seat belted in a vehicle. A weapon kept in the glove compartment or center console isn’t adequately secured for retention or proper use.



    Open carry is legal.

    Open carry is lawful to some degree in 43 States. Only seven States prohibit open carry. While there are some restrictions, California is not one of them. Not only is there a provision to issue permits for general open carry in PC-12050, there is also no specific restriction of open carry in unincorporated areas, unless it is in a prohibited area. See below;



    12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:

    (1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

    (2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

    (3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.



    12025. (f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section.



    12031. (a)(1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.



    (b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to any of the following:



    (6) The carrying of pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person by persons who are authorized to carry those weapons pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4.



    12031. (e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

    (f) As used in this section, "prohibited area,” means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

    (g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.





    12050. (a)(1)(A) The sheriff of a county, upon proof that the person applying is of good moral character, that good cause exists for the issuance, and that the person applying satisfies any one of the conditions specified in subparagraph (D) and has completed a course of training as described in subparagraph (E), may issue to that person a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in either one of the following formats:

    (i) A license to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

    (ii) Where the population of the county is less than 200,000 persons according to the most recent federal decennial census, a license to carry loaded and exposed in that county a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

    (B) The chief or other head of a municipal police department of any city or city and county, upon proof that the person applying is of good moral character, that good cause exists for the issuance, and that the person applying is a resident of that city, and has completed a course of training as described in subparagraph (E), may issue to that person a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in either one of the following formats:

    (i) A license to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

    (ii) Where the population of the county in which the city is located is less than 200,000 persons according to the most recent federal decennial census, a license to carry loaded and exposed in that county a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.



    I kinda need to tie it all together- Im not sure if it needs to be shorter or exclude the penal code quotations--- or if I actually need more information. If you have a direction to take it- Im open to suggestion. (Where are the other Californians?)
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  2. #2
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    I'd hoped to have had some response to this by now...

    Mod's, feel free to move this back over to "California". Thanks.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  3. #3
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    No offence meant, but it is great to see a libertarian such as Condition Three doing good work in a state renowned for its moonbats, freaks,the pretty, pouting gentlemen and crazy liberals.:shock:

    Hats off to a man of integrity and courage,and may I say how impressed I am at how well the case for open carry is argued?

    TrueBrit.



  4. #4
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    California Government Code
    845. Neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for failure to establish a police department or otherwise to provide police protection service or, if police protection service is provided, for failure to provide sufficient police protection service. (...)

  5. #5
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    Recently we discovered that Illinois appears to be a "Rural only open carry state," like California, and kind of like Iowa (if you don't have an IA carry permit).

    So the number of states allowing some form of open carry is 44 - it goes to 46 if you include TX's and AR's "while traveling" exception, but most travelers opt for concealed carry while traveling to avoid scrutiny.

  6. #6
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    I think your arguments are excellent. Here are some thoughts of mine. I don't know if it would help or hurt you, butto quote myself in another thread:

    [As far as the right to keep and bear arms goes] "We should be able to bear arms in any way we see fit. This could include open carry, concealed carry, or even long guns on a sling." -ProguninTN.

    I'm not sure if this would be tooinflammatory (I was thinking of patriots like Samuel Adams and Patrick Henry when I wrote it) for the persons whom your dealing with. I realize that in your State of CA, you have people needing various levels of conversion. Some may be Anti-Second Amendment who need to be converted, and some may just be Anti-Open Carry and need conversion.

    I would also like to comment on your "Tactical Advantage" reasoning. In support of open carry, you could make the argument that it goes hand in hand with concealed carry. As I have known many LEO's who conceal carry one or more backups while open carrying their primary duty weapon. (To all those who make the statement that open carry allows for weapon grabs, how do you know he/she doesn't have a backup or several? ) Of course, while this website focuses on open carry, I take the position of supporting both methods of carry. I hope I have been helpful.

    ProguninTN


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