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Open Carry in Philly w/ a Florida CCW

J

Jersey Ron

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Can anyone please help me out? I'm a resident of DraconiaNewJersey, however I have a valid Florida CCW which is recognized by Pennsylvania. Is it legal for me to Open Carry in Philadelphia? Or is it only legal while in a vehicle? Any information would be appreciated.







Thanks,



Jersey Ron
 
lprgcFrank

lprgcFrank

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You can CC in Philly. While legal, I don't recommend OC in Philly. Other than LEO's, I've never seen anyone OC in Philly.

Given the current Mayor's anti-firearm approach, discretion is the word of the day there. Definetely carry - but carry concealed.



I do OC in the car - but make sure that you don't need to reach past the firearm to get to your license reg, etc...
 
T

TrueBrit

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It tears me up that our new comrade Ron is unable to carry defensive weaponry in his own state, and has to get a permit from another state to carry, albeit concealed, in yet a third state!

These Peoples Republiks really get on my t!ts.

Bunch of wankers!

Sorry to be such a grouch, but really....!
 
J

Jersey Ron

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I hear you loud and clear TrueBrit! The sickest part about New Jersey is that I have to lock my weapon in the trunk, locked in a box separated from locked ammo WHILE driving through the worse city in America to get home. (Camden, NJ!!!) Mind you, I was carjacked along with my wife and 2 year old son in a very similar style area called Brooklyn, NY. I had toplead, no beg,the carjacker to allow me to get my FIRST BORN child out of MY car! But yet I'm the one being treated suspiciously.

Anotherfatc that p*sses me off is that being a licensed CCW'er I have an obligation to use good judgement and morals when encountering a dangerous situation, while the demons who carry illegal weapons could care less about aDAMN thing! It's sickening!! Sometimes I wonder if it'sworth carrying my weapon at all. Sorry to rant and rave but I just had to get this off my chest. Thanks for "listening"!





Jersey Ron
 
Gray Peterson

Gray Peterson

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Jersey,

Count on being pressured, perhaps falsely arrested. Print out a copy of ALL of the laws on firearms, specifically the "City of First Class" law. Make sure you highlight the "Carrying of a loaded firearm", not just concealed carry. Make sure you document everything, because you can hit these bastards with a fat lawsuit.
 
J

Jersey Ron

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Thanks for your insight Lonnie. It appears as though I will just carry concealed at all times in Philly. Just not worth the stress.









Thanks,



Ronnie
 
M

Mike

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You can OFC is Philly with any PA approved LTCF. There is a PA SC opinion verifying that OC is legal in Philly with a LTCF. I know of no organized harassment in Philly - if you want to OC, it is clearly legal.
 
J

Jersey Ron

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Okay...I called the Attorney General's office and spoke with an individual who told me that it would be unwise for him to give me advice on the matter, HOWEVER, he said Pennsylvania has NO law that dealswith the specifics of Open Carry. This leads me to believe that Open Carry would probably result in harassment by LEO's.
 
T

TrueBrit

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Ron,

I am sure that Mike's take on the matter is 100% correct.

It is most unfortunate that one can seldom get straight answers from AGs, etc, and I can understand ones reluctance to OC where a states laws seem "silent" about an issue.

However, being a crazy Englishman, I take the view that if something is not expressly forbidden,then it is permitted!

TrueBrit.
 
H

Hawkmoon

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That was either a quick and slightly incomplete response, or intentionally disingenuous.

First, PA has state preemption ... in statute. That's a law, that says no municipality my regulate that which the State regulates:

Pennsylvania law provides that "[n]o county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth." 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 6120(a). Section 6120(a) has been interpreted to preempt local ordinances banning assault weapons. In Ortiz v. Commonwealth, 681 A.2d 152, 155 (Pa. 1996), the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania struck down local assault weapon bans in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh under what is now subsection 6120(a) because the court found that the legislature had "denied all municipalities the power to regulate the ownership…transfer or possession of firearms." The court stated that the Pennsylvania Constitution "requires that home rule municipalities…not perform any power denied by" the legislature. Id. The court also noted that firearm regulation is "a matter of concern in all of Pennsylvania," and the legislature "is the proper forum for the imposition of such regulation." Id. at 156.
Click to expand...

Secondly, PA statute specifically provides that open carry is legal WITHOUT a license, except in the "first class" cities mentioned by a previous poster), and that in such first class cities IS legal with a permit:

18 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 6108 prohibits carrying a firearm "at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class" (cities with a population of one million or more, per 53 Pa. Stat. Ann. § 101) unless the person is licensed to carry a firearm or, as discussed below, is exempt under 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 6106.
Click to expand...
 
J

Jersey Ron

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Great research Hawkmoon!! But I'm still somewhat confused because I don't see anything that specifically discusses OC. Is this done intentionally to keep us confused or what?
 
J

Jersey Ron

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I hear you TrueBrit but I don't want to be a "test case". I guess I need to grow some backbone and plunge right in! It's a damn shame that I have to be extra careful when some gang banger feels downright comfortable toting a 30 shot UZI!







JErsey Ron
 
M

Mike

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Jersey Ron wrote:
Great research Hawkmoon!! But I'm still somewhat confused because I don't see anything that specifically discusses OC. Is this done intentionally to keep us confused or what?
Click to expand...

No - this is standard statutory construction. Criminal statutes merely detail conduct is lawful.

Ibet almost no state spells out anywhere i a statute that open carry is lawful.

When I get back from my trip, I will give John the PA SC case law cites where the PA SC specifically states that open carry is lawful in Philly with a LTCF.
 
Dutch Uncle

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Having recently taken a brief trip to Philly myself, I can relate to all the ambivalence about wht to do. I had heard the horror stories about Philly's fabled crime culture, and naturally wanted to be able to protect myself. I checked the laws on Packing.org, and realized my VA CCW wasn't recognized. I also found I couldn't even legally carry my Kershaw assisted-open knife, ferchrissake! I decided to take my chances, and just carried a little lock-blade folding knife, staying inside after dark. I felt naked there, after being spoiled in VA, where normal forms of self defense are commonplace. That said, even if I could have OC'd in Philly, I wouldn't have. The gains in OC will be politically difficult and will have to be incremental. The culture in Philly is so thoroughly anti, that we probably waste our time trying to make points there. Better to start somewhere else and let discretion be the better part of valor. Those who disagree can flame away, but we need to decide which hill we are willing to die on. Philly ain't one of 'em for me!
 
H

Hawkmoon

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Statutes typically do not spell out what is lawful, they spell out what is UNlawful. As a ridiculous example, in no state's statues will you find any law stating that it is legal to drive at or below the speed limit. You will find only laws (or regulations promulgated under the authority of laws) stating that it is unlawful to drive faster than speed limits.

PA has no law stating that open carry is illegal, except the law saying it is illegal in a "first class" city without a carry permit. Ergo, it is legal.

CT, on the other hand (where I visit my brother), speciafically provides in statute that any carry of a handgun without a permit is unlawful. Curiously, the CT permit is a "handgun carry permit" that does not specify "concealed" carry so, technically, with the permit open carry is legal. The State Police admit this, grudgingly, but they prefer to discourage the practice. It has been suggested that many local PDs do not understand that it's legal with a permit, and for that reason most folks have recommended that I not "test the waters" when visiting little bro'.
 
J

Jersey Ron

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Hawkmoon, Mike, TrueBritt check this out! I spoke to a Detective via telephone and he told me that Open Carry in Philadelphia is strictly PROHIBITED. He said code 61.09 of Crimes and Offenses (Title 18) explains it. Please read in part:



§ 6109. Licenses.
(a) Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.



Here is the link where you can see the entire section. Am I missing something??



http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6109.html
 
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