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Thread: Man who was ocing robbed of gun

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    Last week, a Centreville man was robbed of his gun as he was walking at 4AM in the morning. Two men came up behind him and placed something hard to his head and took the gun. Wonder why he was walking at 4AM?

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    condition white will get you every time.

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    Do you have a link for this? I would like to read how it presented.

    rebfan wrote:
    Last week, a Centreville man was robbed of his gun as he was walking at 4AM in the morning. Two men came up behind him and placed something hard to his head and took the gun. Wonder why he was walking at 4AM?

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    This is why I don't often open carry at night (I conceal), I feel much more vulnerable because my field of vision is immediately reduced.

    I would also be interested in hearing the details of this story. He could have just been walking for excercise before work (I would conceal though).



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    I do not have a link for the article, I took the information from another website, that also did not have a link.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I don't know how anyone can allow someone to approach them like that at night, or anytime for that matter. That guy was in condition, nothing! With no verifiable news article or such I thought maybe it was some internet rumor but it isn't.

    FXPD Public Information Office
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    VAopencarry wrote:
    I don't know how anyone can allow someone to approach them like that at night, or anytime for that matter. That guy was in condition, nothing! With no verifiable news article or such I thought maybe it was some internet rumor but it isn't.

    FXPD Public Information Office
    Thanks for the link. I guess that is one of the worst fears of us OC'ers (the worst would include getting hurt with your own gun). It just goes to show that you always have to be aware of your surroundings, and sometimes that may not be enough. That is really a tough situation.

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    Has anyone contacted VCDL as this news item is action alert IMO. I just did anyways.

    Personally, I'm not sure I would have given up the gun because in that case, giving a criminal a loaded firearm could end up with you getting shot by your own weapon.

    First prevention is to be aware of your surroundings.



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    This incident reinforces the need for acute situational awareness and training/practice on various scenarios including weapon retention techniques. Did they take the weapon, or was the guy forced to give it up? Not much difference, but it does bring up a possible argument against open top holsters for OC. Also, this is one of those times when a BUG could have been very helpful.

    It has definitely made me stop and think about what I would have done, had I been careless enough to allow someone to get that close in the first place. I think I will dig out the Blue Gun and go through some scenarios this weekend.

    As a possible answer to the 4AM question, not that it excuses the lack of situational awareness that got this guy in trouble in the first place, I work night shift, so OC at 4AM would be as normal for me as 4PM for most other folks.

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    The first thing that came to mind is the need to have a backup gun!

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    I am guessing the guy isn't deaf. He had to have known they were coming up behind him but did not take proper precautions. I mean, 4a.m.!!

    Searching news on this item I came across a lot of crime incidents in Centreville, which is were I live. Really has opened my eyes some. I used to carry about 95% of the time but have slacked off recently too about 50% or less. I think I am going 100% now. A couple weeks ago a guy was robbed at gun point about 150 yards from my front door!!
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    This guy was definetely not as aware of his surroundings as he should have been, but as far as not giving up the gun, if he thought someone had a gun to the back of his head what was he supposed to do? I think he made the right decision because he is alive today.

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    novaccw wrote:
    ... if he thought someone had a gun to the back of his head what was he supposed to do?
    I've given this a lot of thought since the incident was first posted. Here's what I like to think I would have done. Spin around as quickly as possible, blocking the gun away with my weak hand while drawing my weapon with my strong hand. Hopefully the quick movement would throw the attackers off guard for a split second. The instant the weapon gets on target, fire (unless something about the scenario changes significantly once you see the attacker) and then engage the second attacker as necessary. There is no guarantee that cooperation = survival, especially if he takes your personal protection firearm, which you know to be loaded and ready. My $0.02.

    We're all playing Monday morning quarterback here, since we weren't there, of course.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Well no one said it could never happen, I would like to know some more details before passing judgement.

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    Thissituation was probably a tough callfor this guy, however, like I said before, this is why it would be best to have a BUG.


    I also had an idea that I have been thinking over and wanted some opinion on. What if you were to OC some sort of dummy gun and CC a primary weapon.A fake gun would stillbeen a visual deterrent to would-be attackers, yet if someone grabbed your "gun" they wouldn't really be getting anything.


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    VApatriot wrote:
    ...I also had an idea that I have been thinking over and wanted some opinion on. What if you were to OC some sort of dummy gun and CC a primary weapon.A fake gun would stillbeen a visual deterrent to would-be attackers, yet if someone grabbed your "gun" they wouldn't really be getting anything.
    Hmmm... That's an interesting idea. Perhaps even justcarry with an empty chamber, as long as your hold-out weapon is ready-to-rock with one in the pipe. That would give you a chance to ventilate anyone who got your OCW away from you and attempted to use it against you.

    Personally, that's alot to carry around when I could solve the problem with a higher-retention holster.

    If a BG gets close enough to disarm me, it'll most likelyend upa wrestling match any way you look at it...

    molonlabetn

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    Could we be going a little over the top with the whole fake gun thing? I am not passing judgement...I am nodoby to do that...just seems a bit out there to me.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I think a decoy fake gun is a bit much, in fact might be bad legally if you shot someone. Seems too much like bait to me.

    I think there are some much better options if one is concerned about a gun snatch.
    1. Carry a concealed backup piece.
    2. Keep your weapon in Condition 3, no round in chamber and practice the Israeli draw. ( Draw, rack the slide, present the pistol and fire if necessary.)
    3 a. Carry your weapon on safe. It takes over 10 seconds for the average person to figure out a gun is on safe after a failure to fire.
    3 b. Use a Glock block, I've never tried one but they seem to work.
    3 c. Use a Magna Trigger if you have a revolver.
    4. Use a good retention holster.
    5. Better than all of these is keep your situational awareness up. If you are not in a constant state of suspicious alertness, sooner or later someone could get the drop on you.

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    I thought about the bait thinig too, Longwatch. Another option if you are worried about a gun-grab is...don't hate me for this...concealed carry. I do both. Like I said in an earlier post, I usually concealed carry at night or when I am travelling somewhere new to me. One thing I feel strongly about is to carry however you feel comfortable...sometimes I feel comfortable concealed and sometimes open...but I definetely think we should be the ones allowed to make the choice...not our nanny-like politicians.


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    novaccw wrote:
    I thought about the bait thinig too, Longwatch. Another option if you are worried about a gun-grab is...don't hate me for this...concealed carry. I do both. Like I said in an earlier post, I usually concealed carry at night or when I am travelling somewhere new to me. One thing I feel strongly about is to carry however you feel comfortable...sometimes I feel comfortable concealed and sometimes open...but I definetely think we should be the ones allowed to make the choice...not our nanny-like politicians.
    I agree with you, novaccw. Sometimes CC is better, especially if it's what your comfortable with in particular situations. I like having the option to do either.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    This goes back to the thread on singing more than one song. In my martial arts classes, we were taught several ways to drop someone approaching us from behind. I'd like to think that training was worth something.

    I can't imagine letting someone get that close, but as longwatch said, I don't know all the details.
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    On "spinning around":

    If someone is silly enough to place the muzzle of a weapon in contact with a trained victim, that weapon will belong to the "victim". But it must be done quickly and proficiently.

    There is a specific technique used to counter a gun muzzle that is in contact with your back or head. The technique involves rotation, using the muzzle as an axis. You spin to the side where the muzzle is (ie: it will always be off center). The idea is to get the muzzle pointed at air as quickly as possible. With your hands up (which is good), and "act" like it's a joke to relax yourself. Relaxation is the key. MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT BROADCAST YOUR MOVEMENT WITH YOUR SHOULDER! So, rotate into the gun on the side that is farthest from your center. Loop the closest arm over the rifle or arm (for a handgun). Lock the rifle or arm. In case of the rifle, (if you want) you can grab the magazine and twist. In case of a handgun, control that arm! In either case, use your other arm to strike at the neck of your enemy (elbows work too). Take the gun as you pound your enemy's neck and face. Followup with kicks to the knee, as needed. Since a weapon was pointed at you, shoot the bastard and his buddies, because this is deadly force time.

    There is a odd technique for punching that is extremely powerful and is typically not taught in dojos. It is based upon velocity, not thrusting from the foot and hips as taught in karate and tae kwon do. One punches from the shoulder, without moving it. This is very fast and if the shoulder moves, the punch is broadcast. Hyperextension of the arm and wrist results in a sort of weird "grinding" that causes additional damage. This technique is very different and I didn't believe it until I tried it. Light hits (from the perspective of the puncher) hurt like hell. I don't want to be hit hard using this technique.

    The above techniques take time and practice to achieve proficiency. You must practice against rifles and handguns, as well as perfect punching from the shoulder. Various martial arts, such as Krav Maga and others, do all sorts of preparatory moves. All this will get you shot. You must minimize your movements in order to avoid this result.

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