OC in Alexandria, VA

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I think VCDL updated their Gun Owner's Unfriendly page because I don't see it anymore. I do remember they did have Landmark Mall up, but it's been so long since I've been there, I haven't checked it in person. http://www.vcdl.org/static/gue.html

oh, btw

I'm new here, hi everyone

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OK, that's what I thought. landmark mall is a quiet victory - the signs came down. I caonceal carry there unless in restaurants - no problems oCing in the American rest. and Ruby Tuesday - I just conceal once I walk back into the mall.

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Greetings, razorblade & WELCOME. I haven't been to Landmark for some time and I drive by there twice a day. I'll check it out and walk the exterior doors at some point this week. It's not like it used to be, though. Heck, I remember it when there was a dairy farm on that piece of property.

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Thank you for the welcome hahaha dairy farm? I remember when it was just a "shopping plaza" and a majority of the stores were outdoor. I remember seeing one sign posted near the Ruby Tuesday enterence. I really hope they did something about it, I won't step in there (armed or unarmed) because of it. Although, there isn't much there anyways, my time is better spent at Tysons.

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Went to Tysons Corner mall yesterday(the "official" name escapes me). Entered from Nordstroms outside parking lot near LL Bean. Went to Nordstroms. Went to LL Bean. Guy at the knife counter asked me which range I frequented. He told me about his rifle collection (he looked too young to own a handgun.)

Went to Lord and Taylors. Tried on a suit. The salesman asked me to take off my gun to help determine how the suit fit. No problem unholstering and pocketing the magazine and tucking the gun in a shopping bag.

The tailor who was helping me get fitted commented on how some of the Secret Service guys have really bug guns. He didn't ask me, though, if I was a LEO.

Strolled through the mall. Guy at the Redskins store asked if I was a LEO. Told him I was just another citizen. He said that was cool.

No problems at Starbucks or Hecht's.

I think most people walk around in Code White.

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Went to Springfield Mall today to buy some towels on sale at JC Penney's. Entered JC Penney with my XD-9 on my right hip, bought my towels and since they were bulky, went back to the car to put away my purchases. Went back in and went to Sports Authority and bought some clothes. Decided I was hungry, so headed for the Food Court. On the way there, a Fairfax County Deputy paid me no mind (he must have seen my firearm) as he responded to a little girl lost situation. The little girl was surrounded by mall security and a cleaning lady who were trying to get her name, etc. No problems, so far.

Then I arrive at the big food court and am dismayed to see that it was closed. No Arby's or Dairy Queen for me. At that moment a mall security guard (unarmed of course) approaches me and asks if I am a LEO. I say no.

"Do you have a permit for that?"

"I don't need one to open carry, but I do have a concealed handgun permit. See?" I show him the permit. I ask, "Does this make you feel better?" and I pull my shirt over the gun.

Three more arrive and one starts to tell me that firearms are not allowed on mall property.

I ask, "Where is it posted?"

"That's mall policy. There's a lot of negative activity here and the mall owners do not want people carrying weapons."


"That's why I carry, in case any of that negative activity is directed towards me. Where is this policy posted? I came in through JC Penney's and there is nothing there that says I can't carry."

"It's mall policy and you need to put your gun in your car."

"But where is it posted? Are you the owner of this property?"

"I am the law around here and you can't bring that in here."


I can't believe what I am hearing as I face a phalanx of four young unarmed security guards.

Then a more senior guard arrives and asks if I have a permit. I said I came in open carrying, but show him my CHP. He asks if that is a real gun since BB guns are not allowed. I say it's a real gun. He says that's fine then since Fairfax County law allows people to open carry without a permit or conceal carry with a permit. He says the county knows it.

I add that the law in Virginia, the whole state, allows open carry without a permit. And Senior Mall Guard says that is right, except you can't conceal carry in Ruby Tuesday's, or in a private home without the owner's permission. (Note that I am in the closed Food Court.)

I turn toward the young guards and say I hope you are taking notes. Let this be a lesson for you. I ask for the one guard's name (Mr. I Am The Law), but he refuses to give it. To rub it in a little, I say so let's repeat this so we're all clear. I can open carry in the mall. I ask if we're cool and then go in search of dinner.

I was so hoping they would try to detain me, grab me, and take my weapon so I could sue the pants off of them, but Mr. Senior Mall Guard arrived before that could happen.

Anyone know the name of a lawyer good at wrongful arrest/violation of civil rights lawsuits in Virginia? I might get lucky next time.

I'll ask Springfield Mall if they have a "criminals are safe to carry in the mall since law-abiding citizens are not allowed to carry" policy.

No problems buying groceries at the Giant on Edsall Road/Van Dorn Street.

Keep on packing!

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He's probably upset that HE can't carry while at the mall. It doesnt suprise me that mall security (the junior guards) wouldnt know open carry. Many of them "patrol" the mall in a very unprofessional manner anyways. Scruffy appearance, unironed uniforms, lack of bearing. For a few, it's just a summer job, and perhaps the closest thing to ever becoming somekind of real authority figure.

Sorry that had to happen to you

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XD Owner wrote:

Went to Springfield Mall today to buy some towels on sale at JC Penney's. Entered JC Penney with my XD-9 on my right hip, bought my towels and since they were bulky, went back to the car to put away my purchases. Went back in and went to Sports Authority and bought some clothes. Decided I was hungry, so headed for the Food Court. On the way there, a Fairfax County Deputy paid me no mind (he must have seen my firearm) as he responded to a little girl lost situation. The little girl was surrounded by mall security and a cleaning lady who were trying to get her name, etc. No problems, so far.

Then I arrive at the big food court and am dismayed to see that it was closed. No Arby's or Dairy Queen for me. At that moment a mall security guard (unarmed of course) approaches me and asks if I am a LEO. I say no.

"Do you have a permit for that?"

"I don't need one to open carry, but I do have a concealed handgun permit. See?" I show him the permit. I ask, "Does this make you feel better?" and I pull my shirt over the gun.

Three more arrive and one starts to tell me that firearms are not allowed on mall property.

I ask, "Where is it posted?"

"That's mall policy. There's a lot of negative activity here and the mall owners do not want people carrying weapons."


"That's why I carry, in case any of that negative activity is directed towards me. Where is this policy posted? I came in through JC Penney's and there is nothing there that says I can't carry."

"It's mall policy and you need to put your gun in your car."

"But where is it posted? Are you the owner of this property?"

"I am the law around here and you can't bring that in here."


I can't believe what I am hearing as I face a phalanx of four young unarmed security guards.

Then a more senior guard arrives and asks if I have a permit. I said I came in open carrying, but show him my CHP. He asks if that is a real gun since BB guns are not allowed. I say it's a real gun. He says that's fine then since Fairfax County law allows people to open carry without a permit or conceal carry with a permit. He says the county knows it.

I add that the law in Virginia, the whole state, allows open carry without a permit. And Senior Mall Guard says that is right, except you can't conceal carry in Ruby Tuesday's, or in a private home without the owner's permission. (Note that I am in the closed Food Court.)

I turn toward the young guards and say I hope you are taking notes. Let this be a lesson for you. I ask for the one guard's name (Mr. I Am The Law), but he refuses to give it. To rub it in a little, I say so let's repeat this so we're all clear. I can open carry in the mall. I ask if we're cool and then go in search of dinner.

I was so hoping they would try to detain me, grab me, and take my weapon so I could sue the pants off of them, but Mr. Senior Mall Guard arrived before that could happen.

Anyone know the name of a lawyer good at wrongful arrest/violation of civil rights lawsuits in Virginia? I might get lucky next time.

I'll ask Springfield Mall if they have a "criminals are safe to carry in the mall since law-abiding citizens are not allowed to carry" policy.

No problems buying groceries at the Giant on Edsall Road/Van Dorn Street.

Keep on packing!

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Hey, XD Owner - that's a shame. I open carry in Springfield Mall often, and have never been stopped. I'd love to know if Mr. "I am the Law" only stops men.

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Hey, XD. Glad all worked out in the end, so to speak. However, you were able to turn this into an educational experience for the Mall-Rat Patrol. I'm kinda surprised that the supervisor was so knowledgeable about the law (except for the Fairfax County reference). Anywho, I OC down at the same Giant on Van Dorn/Edsall. May get to cross paths there one day.

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I can't quite understand why the guy said that BB guns are not allowed, did he mention any specific reason for that.

BTW, I was at Springfield Mall just last week and found that the Sports Authority no longer sells any firearms, just a few BB and pelletguns.

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I think Mall management may be afraid that teenagers (really stupid ones) might engage in innocent horseplay and shoot each other in the mall with BB guns, or the really bad ones will paint the orange tips black and attempt to rob people in the parking garages with them. Since teenagers can legally buy BB guns (I think they can, right? Or at least the 18+ year olds can), the mall wants to eliminate these possibilities.

Let me tell you, if someone points an object that looks like a real firearm at me, I have already made up my mind on how I will react if I am armed with a real firearm. I will defend myself from imminent death by shooting until the threat has been neutralized. If I am unarmed I will probably make a run for it since I hear that criminals find moving targets harder to hit than stationary ones.

If the person threatening me is using a BB gun, well, that's too bad for them because how am I supposed to know they are trying to rob me with a less-than-lethal weapon?

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XD Owner wrote:

I think Mall management may be afraid that teenagers (really stupid ones) might engage in innocent horseplay and shoot each other in the mall with BB guns, or the really bad ones will paint the orange tips black and attempt to rob people in the parking garages with them. Since teenagers can legally buy BB guns (I think they can, right? Or at least the 18+ year olds can), the mall wants to eliminate these possibilities.

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Being that I spent a majority of my youth in the lower income areas of Alexandria, I will bet my money that is EXACTLY what Springfield Mall is trying to prevent. There are many more requirements for owning/carrying a handgun, than there are for a pellet gun. Two are that you're over 21 and not a convicted fellon, which leaves many juvenile delinquents SOL. However, there isn't a background check for pellet guns, nor are they more than $100 (usually). Bob behind the sporting goods section isn't usually checking for straw purchasers, unless they are REALLY obvious.

Some black paint over they orange muzzle, and wham... instant "gun".

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After making the post, I thought it through some more and came to roughlythe same conclusion.

Someoneonly has to be 16 to buy (and in some counties, including Fairfax,carry)an air gun.

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Mike wrote:

OK, that's what I thought. landmark mall is a quiet victory - the signs came down. I caonceal carry there unless in restaurants - no problems oCing in the American rest. and Ruby Tuesday - I just conceal once I walk back into the mall.

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Yes, I went to Landmark mall today and saw first hand their new rules plackard. I checked the entrance by the security office (near the Sears). It states something to the effect of "... behavior which could be considered unsafe to our customers." Nowhere on the plackard did I see the words "concealed, gun, weapon, pistol, knife, RPG, flamethrower, or samurai sword."

Chalk another one up for the good guys.

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Open carried at Giant on Duke Street today. No problems in store. When I walked out I noticed an Alexandria Police car idling out front, driver's side was empty, there was an officer in the passenger seat. I walked to my car and started putting groceries in. The car now pulled up to me and the driver got out. I smiled at him and asked him how he was doing. He said fine, and asked me if I was a cop. I said no, and then he asked if I had a CHP. I told him I do have a CHP but my gun is not concealed. He said he knows about OC he just wanted to know if I had a CHP. I told him that I coneal when I feel it is tactically smart to do so but it is nice to have the choice. When he asked again if I have a CHP (I thought it odd) but responded in the affirmative. I asked him if he wanted to see the CHP and he said no that's fine, just wanted to check up on ya. I asked if there was a problem, a call from the store, he said no. The officer was really nice, no problems or seemingly anti-gun attitude. His partner stayed in the car. I did find it odd that he asked twice if I had a CHP (thought he was maybe trying to trip me up and find out if I was lying). Great experience overall. Alexandria must be doing a little educating of their officers.

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Went to Cafe Monti on Duke Street Friday night.

http://www.cafemonti.com/

Good food. I recomment the Veal Scallopini with Lemon Butter, Roast Potatoes and Vegetables. No comments about my holstered XD-9.

I'll also post the above in the Restaurant Carry 2 section.

I went back to Springfield Mall on a busy Saturday, but wimped out and went concealed carry. Just too many dubious looking patrons. I saw one of the same mall guards who questioned me when I was open carrying, but he did not see me. I also went to the information desk and asked about what is prohibited on the property. No mention of firearms, but smoking, passing out literature of a religious or political nature, videotaping (except at the carousel) and loud/boisterous behavior are prohibited among other things. I also checked the main entrances and the posted rules are more along the lines of NO SMOKING and NO SOLICITING.

Today, OC'd at Landmark Honda on Duke Street and a little coffee shop, Cameron Perks (http://www.cameronperks.com/).

The Honda people seemed extra courteous, or was that my imagination? No problems at the coffee shop.

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Today me and my XD-9 made appearances at the Virginia Commonwealth Bank on Duke and S. Pickett, The Trophy Room in Old Town (a fishing and hunting store with a nice variety of long guns, handguns, supplies and accessories), the Scoop Shop on King Street, and of course when I was walking in that neighborhood and re-positioning the car to avoid parking tickets. Also went to Whole Foods on Duke Street. No comments.

I am starting to think that I am getting zero reactions because everyone else must be concealed carrying, ha ha!

Keep on packing!

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XD Owner wrote:

The Trophy Room in Old Town (a fishing and hunting store with a nice variety of long guns, handguns, supplies and accessories), the Scoop Shop on King Street,

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How interesting. I have always been under the assumption that Old Town prohibited firearms, concealed or otherwise. Something about "you can have a gun on you, just not loaded". Did they change it, or have I always been wrong?

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razorblade wrote:

XD Owner wrote:

The Trophy Room in Old Town (a fishing and hunting store with a nice variety of long guns, handguns, supplies and accessories), the Scoop Shop on King Street,

Click to expand...

How interesting. I have always been under the assumption that Old Town prohibited firearms, concealed or otherwise. Something about "you can have a gun on you, just not loaded". Did they change it, or have I always been wrong?

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Whatever firearms laws Alexandria or any other local municipality had regarding carrying of firearms have been null and void since July 1, 2004 when the preemption law went into effect. No local government can pass firearms possession laws that are more stringent than the state law. They can still pass laws having to do with the discharge of firearms (i.e. when and where to hunt or to establish gun ranges).

Anyone that ismore familiar with the actual language of the preemption law feel free to correct me or augment my comments!

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Here are some augmentations to GlockEm's comments. For personal reasons, I am not sending this to City Council, but I invite anyone else to take up the torch.

I have reason to believe that the following two sections of the Alexandria City Code should be deleted since it conflicts with Virginia statute.



Sec. 13-2-4 Carrying loaded firearms.

It shall be unlawful for any unauthorized person to carry a loaded firearm in any public place. (Code 1963, Sec. 41-4),



and,

Sec. 13-2-6 Transporting loaded weapons.

It shall be unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road or highway in the city. The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifle or shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business. Any person violating this section shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $100. (Ord. No. 3432, 1/20/90, Sec. 1)



I am of course referring to Virginia statute § 15.2-915. "Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies" which states:

A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.

Nothing in this section shall prohibit a locality from adopting workplace rules relating to terms and conditions of employment of the workforce. Nothing in this section shall prohibit a law-enforcement officer, as defined in § 9.1-101 from acting within the scope of his duties.

The provisions of this section applicable to a locality shall also apply to any authority or to a local governmental entity, including a department or agency, but not including any local or regional jail or juvenile detention facility.

B. Any local ordinance, resolution or motion adopted prior to the effective date of this act governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, other than those expressly authorized by statute, is invalid.

I had a very negative experience today at the Alexandria DMV on Mill Road and I am waiting for a reply from the Alexandria PD Deputy Chief to my FOIA requestfor the incident report about little ole me lawfully open carrying in the waiting room for four hours. Three hours into my wait, an alert security guard noticed I was open carrying. After telling him I was not a LEO and that in fact I am allowed to open carry in the DMV, I invited him to call the cops if he wanted to question me more. Six officers responded (eventually) and I was questioned for at least thirty minutes in full view of the filled waiting room. All those eyes actually made me feel safer though. I was a tad worried that the rookie officer guarding me while other officers ran my ID was going to attack me. Like I said, more to come on this OC experience.