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Thread: California Law- creates potential for encroachment of liberties.

  1. #1
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    12031. (e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

    So, John Q Public open carries in an unincorporatedterritory of the county that is not in a prohibited area. Someone calls the police and reports a man with a gun. The sheriff's department is dispatchedand responds to a 417, with units responding. John Q Public looks up from his meal in the outdoor dining area of a fast food restaurant to be apprehended by several deputies. The firearm is holstered and JQP's hands are visible and away from the weapon. the deputies begin an interrogatory with the subject to determine his intent and ask to inspect the firearm. JQP asks the deputies what crime they are investigating. They reply 417pc 'brandishing' and 12031pc (loaded firearm in public). JQP declines the search of his person, indicatingit is not a crime to carry loaded and exposed in an unincorporated area and since there was no crime commited and no warrant issued, there was also no concent to search. JQP is then manhandled, tazered, OC sprayed, or otherwise subdued, his firearm confiscated, hands cuffed and the 'perp' hauled to the pokey.

    Anyone else see the snag here?

    Legislators have created a situation where police could potentially be conducting an illegal search and seizure. In the text of the above law, cops are given open discretionto inspect a persons firearm to determine if a person is breaking the law- but it specifies and limits the vicinities where the the person cannot refuse such a search of their person and property under threat of arrest.

    What would you do in JQP's position?


    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  2. #2
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    This auth to inspect firearm is limit to enforcing a "section" of law - what is the section about? I bet it is NOT about carry in unincorp. areas as that is presumably legal unless the county says otherwise.

  3. #3
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Yes, Mike this authorization is specific to the enforcement of one law- But my 'spidey' senses tell me that this wouldnt make any difference to a deputy who thinks they are protecting the community from a bad guy.

    So, I suppose the real question would be, if you were John Q Public, would you refuse an inspection of your firearm by a deputy requesting to do so under the belief a violation of 12031pc is being commited, even when the carry is being done in unincorporated territory that is not in a prohibited area?

    The problem with this is that we are all conditioned to do as the police request of us- starting as children, we are told to trust policemen, then media such as movies and television shows like "Cops" reinforce this... even at the expense of their Constitutional rights. You cant watch an episode of "Cops' without seeing some moron consent to search or freely talk to police without invoking 4th and 5th amendment protections.

    So my dilemna is-(if the occasion should arrise during my open carry activities... )consent to an unlawful search or refuse an inspection of my firearm.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  4. #4
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    ConditionThree wrote:
    So, I suppose the real question would be, if you were John Q Public, would you refuse an inspection of your firearm by a deputy requesting to do so under the belief a violation of 12031pc is being commited, even when the carry is being done in unincorporated territory that is not in a prohibited area?

    Yes, I would refuse saying somthing like "Sorry but I'm legal here whether my handgun is loaded or not, so excuse me and have a nice day."

    The ame way I would for an ID check onthe public street where I am not required to have ID or to produce it on demnd.

  5. #5
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    This behaviour isn't restricted to Open Carry issues.

    I know women who have falsely accused their sig others of physical violence out of spite, causing their arrest based solely on their word and not on evidence.

    We know teachers who have lost jobs because of unproved allegations by students.

    All it takes is one person with a vindictive attitude.



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