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Thread: Places "off limits" -- contradictions in law -- want an opinion

  1. #1
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    The state law regulating carry of pistols on education institutions is here: http://tinyurl.com/o5kpj

    Part of the law states that a person will lose their concealed handgun license for carrying on education property. Another part of the law states that a person who possesses a concealed handgun license is exempt from the prohibition of carrying on educational property.

    Any light that you can shed on this would be appreciated!

    ================================================== ==
    Section of the law which states it is ILLEGAL to carry
    ================================================== ==

    "1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools: (a) Any firearm;"

    AND

    "(2) Any such person violating subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1)(a) of this section, the person shall have his or her concealed pistol license, if any revoked for a period of three years. Anyone convicted under this subsection is prohibited from applying for a concealed pistol license for a period of three years. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license."

    ================================================== ==
    Section of the law which states it is LEGAL to carry
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    "(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:"

    AND

    "(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;"

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    "while picking up or dropping off a student;"

    That's when you don't lose your license.

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    This in effect allows you to have your gun with you in your vehicle while picking up or dropping off your kid for school. I believe that if went inside of the building with your weapon, you'd probably be charged under the first portion.

    IANAL and YMMV.

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    In my opinion, for what it is worth, the Supreme Law of our land states the the right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. The Bill of Rights does not list exceptions for courtrooms, schoolhouses, barrooms, post offices, national parks, military installations,etc. It was the founding fathers intent that NO free man should be debarred the use of arms. Any legislator whose opinion is to the contrary WILL NOT get my vote. Oh, and don't give me that BS about states' rights, either. By agreeing to be one of the United States of America, it is agreed that all citizens are afforded the RIGHTS specified in our constitution.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    First, you have to be convicted of an offense in order to lose your license.

    Second, read subsection 3 carefully.

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    http://www.lcav.org/states/washington.asp

    while reading the "Open Carrying/Exposed Firearms" section makes it seem illegal. Lonnie, can we get an email made for the webmaster to try and change the wording here?

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Subsection (c) seems to address this:

    (c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

    I would certainly hope this subsection would not be interpreted as making possession legal only after using it in defense! The word "presently" bothers me.



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    adamwa wrote:
    http://www.lcav.org/states/washington.asp

    while reading the "Open Carrying/Exposed Firearms" section makes it seem illegal. Lonnie, can we get an email made for the webmaster to try and change the wording here?
    you know that this is an anti-gun site, yes?

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    Yeah I know its anti, I was just hoping they would word it differently

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Adam,

    You need to read the entire thing:

    (5) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.

    You'll notice that a Concealed Pistol License is not one of the exceptions. Simply put: You cannot go into a school building.

  11. #11
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    My concearn had nothing to do with school buildings, I know the laws there. Mine was the open carry in general part of it.

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    The thing to remember here is that you have to be utilizing the weapon in a way that is meant to intimidate or in a way that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

    Openly carrying a pistol in a holster does neither of these. Just because someone says they are alarmed by the sight of a weapon does not mean that thier alarm was warranted.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    So my question for you guys is, "How does this apply to community colleges?" As a person who will be transfering to Peninsula College andhaving a CPL, canI carry while at classes? I'm seriously leery of going to school unarmed as there have been "incidents" that aren't being reported according to federal guidlines there for the last several years that most people don't know about.

    It mentions private and public schools but there is no mention of colleges at all. Is there any legal distinction between the two?

    Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    The state law says "K-12 schools".

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    Excellent.

    I have a friend who insists the college is the safest place ever when there was a rape, an assault and a robbery on campus with no less than 18 "other calls" to the police that the college security people never bothered to follow through with in the last year or so. Of course, she also is a bit anti in her stance because 'bad stuff never happens here in Port Angeles' (Yeah! Just rapes, assaults and robberies! )... How sheignores the fact that every eveningnews crime report ends with witnesses stating, "I stilldon't believe it! This sort of stuff never happens here!" when she spent time as an Airborne medic is a complete mystery.

    Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )

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    What state are you referring to? I know that in Oregon, New Hampshire, and a couple of other states, school carry is legal. You make no mention whatsoever of what state you're coming from, however.

  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Since this is a Washington State forum, it's assumed that he's talking about Washington State.

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    Umm...my account location description is for Washington and this is a Washington state forum area. Our discussion location becoming a bit clearer now?

    Don't worry, I do it myself all the time, tattedupboy...
    Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )

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    Mark,

    While it may not be covered in the RCW, you might want to sift through the WAC's and see if it'll be a problem.

    I'm still trying to determine if the WAC's actually hold weight outside of ther nothing. organization that created them...but so far I haven't found anything. I'm concerned about places like UW who have a police force.

    Sorry, got off track. The point is, though it might not be illegal, if you get caught on campus with a weapon, you could be subject to a WAC, which might mean that you are expelled from school. Just something to keep in mind. I haven't checked the WAC's for your school, but I did find them:
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=132a

    I just know at UW, it's an expulsion of caught.

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    It's even worse than you might think. This particular community college is downright Orwellian in 3(g) of the above-mentioned WAC:

    (g) The possession on college property of weapons, explosives, or dangerous chemicals, or the unauthorized use or possession of any device or substance which can be used to inflict bodily harm or cause damage to real or personal property. [emphasis added]
    Baseball bats are right out. So as any screwdriver with a blade longer than 1/2". Even a unopened water bottle or pop can might fall afoul of this regulation. Better off just coming to school naked, I'd say.

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    For me it's even worse! As I've studied the martial arts for several years almost my entire body is capable of inflicting bodily harm or damaging personal property. I'm not thinking that a quadruple amputation will enhance my collegic career, however.

    Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )

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