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Gun Stolen...while being open carried! [Update 5/2010: story debunked]

cREbralFIX

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Code:
From VCDL's current newsletter:

2.  Man robbed of openly carried handgun - lessons learned
*******************************************************

There is no substitute for being alert, regardless of the time of
day.  A gun, or any other means of self-defense, can best save your
life if you are NOT caught unaware.  There might be more to the
story, but the 21 year old below seems to have been surprised by two
individuals who came from behind him.  At 4 AM, he might have thought
he was safe.

Not so.  Luckily he got away with his life.

Remember, whenever you carry your firearm openly, YOU MUST BE ALERT
TO ANYONE OR ANYTHING NEAR YOU.  Be alert and be safe -- your mind is
the weapon, your gun is just a tool.  Don't be caught napping!

Thanks to Jim Charlton, and others, for the link:

[url=http://tinyurl.com/om4bx]http://tinyurl.com/om4bx
[/url]
From Potomac News Police Briefs August 1, 2006

A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton
Patent Drive in Centreville, Fairfax County Police said.  About 4:10
a.m. Sunday, two suspects approached the victim from behind, and
placed a metal object up to his head, said police. The robbers took
the man's handgun, which he was openly carrying, and ran away. He was
not injured. The robbers were described as black males wearing dark
clothing.

Anyone with information about this incident or the robbers is asked
to call Crime Solvers at 1-866-411-TIPS (8477) or the police
non-emergency number at (703) 691-2131.
 

cREbralFIX

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Lessons Learned:

1) Condition Yellow

Alertness is paramount!

2) Carry a backup gun

Carry a *concealed* backup gun.

3) OC holsters should have a retention device

If you can slow down the removal of your handgun, then you have some extra time to react.

4) Learn to fight unarmed

Combatives, as unarmed fighting is called, are important! If you know what to do when someone presses a weapon against your back or head, you'll have a better chance of winning.
 

Neplusultra

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cREbralFIX wrote:
Lessons Learned:

1) Condition Yellow

Alertness is paramount!

2) Carry a backup gun

Carry a *concealed* backup gun.

3) OC holsters should have a retention device

If you can slow down the removal of your handgun, then you have some extra time to react.

4) Learn to fight unarmed

Combatives, as unarmed fighting is called, are important! If you know what to do when someone presses a weapon against your back or head, you'll have a better chance of winning.
Interesting. A concealed backup gun. Accessable by using your weak hand only, your strong hand will be busy keeping your gun in it's holster. No two handed draw from concealment allowed, must have a fast one hand access. Can be very small, even preferably, so the barrel can't be grabbed and deflected. Only meant to persuade or wound enough to stop the attempted gun grab.

Retention holster is a must. Condition 2 carry just to buy more time as the perp trys to figure out how to work the safety.

Thoughts?
 

Neplusultra

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cREbralFIX wrote:
4) Learn to fight unarmed

Combatives, as unarmed fighting is called, are important! If you know what to do when someone presses a weapon against your back or head, you'll have a better chance of winning.
While taking Driver's Ed waaay back when I was impressed with a machine they had everyone try. It was a driver's seat, steering wheel and brake pedal, with a red light and a timer. You would sit there and wait for the red light to come on, with your foot off the brake pedal. As soon as the light came on you would hit the brake pedal as fast as you could. Even "knowing" what was going to happen IIRC it would take around 0.3 seconds to hit the brakes.

Now you had to move your foot but being 15 I could do that pretty quick. In the situation with a gun to the back of your head could you actually deflect it before the guy shoots? Would you want to try without serious practice? And how fast could you draw?

If someone was coming up behind me and I was OCing the best thing to do might be to step aside at the ready and let them pass. Or cross over to the other side of the street before they get anywhere near you to put distance between you and them. If they then cross over too double back, if they follow again you know damn well their intent is not good.

Thoughts?
 

Beau

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cREbralFIX wrote:
Lessons Learned:

1) Condition Yellow

Alertness is paramount!

2) Carry a backup gun

Carry a *concealed* backup gun.

3) OC holsters should have a retention device

If you can slow down the removal of your handgun, then you have some extra time to react.

4) Learn to fight unarmed

Combatives, as unarmed fighting is called, are important! If you know what to do when someone presses a weapon against your back or head, you'll have a better chance of winning.
Unless your just that fast I don't think a BUG would have done much good in this guys situation. Once the criminals had his gun and were running away. I assume that since he was no longer in danger he would not be justified in drawing another weapon and engaging bad guys.
 

swillden

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Neplusultra wrote:
In the situation with a gun to the back of your head could you actually deflect it before the guy shoots? Would you want to try without serious practice? And how fast could you draw?
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that the reaction time issue works in your favor in this case, because you are controlling the "red light" and it's the guy with the gun that has to react. Of course, all he has to do is twitch his finger, not move his foot to a pedal and press, but if most of that 0.3 seconds is "think time", then it seems like you've got a pretty good chance.
 

possumboy

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I think I saw something in the news about there being a lot more to this story. I will see if I can find it. Until then, anyone else remember the followup?
 

mlands

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When open carrying you must have complete awareness of your surroundings at all times and have a built in red and yellow zone. Otherwise you can become a victim and learn a very hard lesson like this young man just did. This young man could have used some extra training in preventing being unholstered. This is done with both lecture and practical exercises. Most police academies train their academy students in this area where students and faculty try to steal your gun out of your holster, even in teams. Yes this is done with a toy realistic looking rubber gun of course since the attempts are quite aggressive and real. I do feel for the guy. This is a good daily lesson in not ever letting our guard down when open carrying.
 

Neplusultra

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swillden wrote:
Neplusultra wrote:
In the situation with a gun to the back of your head could you actually deflect it before the guy shoots? Would you want to try without serious practice? And how fast could you draw?
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that the reaction time issue works in your favor in this case, because you are controlling the "red light" and it's the guy with the gun that has to react. Of course, all he has to do is twitch his finger, not move his foot to a pedal and press, but if most of that 0.3 seconds is "think time", then it seems like you've got a pretty good chance.
Oh, I think you could do it, most likely even without a lot of practice, that is deflect the gun without getting shot. You might get a defening gun blast to the ear. But the problem is what next? You have to draw and fire before he can get his gun back on target. My best times are between 1.2 and 1.5 seconds to draw, aim COM at 21 feet, fire. Of course you can take out almost all of the "aim" time which is usally the majority of the draw/fire time but still......

Far better not to get yourself in the situation in the first place.
 

hogleg

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Hmm anyone walking up behind me at 4:10 a.m is going to have my full attention.If you are awareenough of the need to OC a firearm you better be aware enough of your surroundings, including behind you. Retention holster is a great idea.



Having said that. I have been on the receiving end of something metal stuck up to the back of my head.For me it was a couple ofpunks trying to get a $2000.00 mountain bikeI was riding at the time. Everything you think you would do goes right out the window.I was not carrying at the time as I was heading home after a ride with friends. Luckily for me the idiot tripped on my pedal smashed his face on my rear wheel and off I went. Not even sure he had a gun. That was the event that started me carrying...
 

cREbralFIX

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Alertness at all times is impossible.

Just looking down to put the key in a car's door lock shrinks your sphere of attention to your hand and the lock. My experience with this was a jogger came "out of nowhere"...between the time I stepped off the curb and reached the car, she "just appeared."

It's the way things are.
 

UTOC-45-44

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Carolina40 wrote:
one word: Serpa.
That is SO true. I was disarmed by a female officer due to the fact that I was OCing and that she thought I was commiting an illegal act. I had to Instruct her AFTER she had been yanking on my Kimber for about 10 seconds to get it out. I LOVE SERPA. IT'S EVEN COP PROOF:celebrate.
 

bohdi

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This never happened. I don't know if it's the first urban legend on OCDO, but I can say that it's one of them. If you want to know more I can put you in touch with FCPD that is in charge of the issue. There is a gun and it does belong to the guy, but he wasn't robbed, that's what I was told.FCPD haven't issued a correction to the story and I don't know that they will, I was going to ask but figured after my conversation it wasn't needed.
 

deepdiver

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So the Fairfax County Police Department Public Information Office put a non-existent crime, complete with requests for crime stopper calls on their own web site? :shock:
 

packingmama

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cREbralFIX wrote:
4) Learn to fight unarmed

A good Self Defense Course for women is called RAD Women - just goggle it. It dosen't teach about how to take a gun away if it is pointed at your head, but there is some really good techniques they use that normally you wouldn't think of. RAD stands for RAPE, AGGRESSION, DEFENSE. I really enjoyed this class and would like to take their advanced course. You basically learn how to escape and get away is the objective.
 
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