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How would you handle this

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danbus

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Dec 3, 2006
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495
Location
Hampton, Virginia, USA
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rlh2005 wrote:
What would you have done in this situation?

Last night, my wife and I dropped our two kids and two friends at a local theater. She and I then went across the maindrag for dinner to celebrate her new job. After dinner and a decadent dessert, we went back to the theater to pick up the kids.

The movie hadn't let out yet so we happened upon a proper parking space in front of the main doors. The passenger side was towards the theater doors. We had about a 20 minute wait until their movie let out. We were minding our own business and passing the time listening to the radio, talking, and playing cell phone games.

Another movie had let out and people were leaving with some groups of "friends" gathering at various points in the parking lot. I was pretty situationally aware (at least in the theaters direction) since were waiting for the kids and are a little over protective.

A group standing outside the main doors were talking with some people in a car along the curb. All of a sudden, this young girl (15-16ish) starts cussing and telling this guy to leave her alone. The guy is trying to grab her arm and is verbally berating her. No one in the group (maybe 8-10 total including 3 in car) responded or tried to stop it -- well, maybe 1 girl said something.

I sat watching for maybe 30 seconds while this transpired and after the guy appeared to try to grab the girl by the neck, I got out of my SUV and interceeded. In a loud, authoritative tone, I yelled "hey" two or three times before anyone acknowledged me. I told the guy to stop what he was doing and leave the girl alone. He attempted to further disparage the girl and I cut him off saying "I don't care" and "you need to stop and leave the area now." He said something like "whatever" under his breath and got in the front, passenger seat of the car.

I backed up to the island next to my SUV but did do anything to mark my vehicle. At this point a theater employee on a smokebreak came up and told all parties they needed to leave now or he was calling the cops. The theater employee had witnessed the whole event, including the build up, from 15-20 feet away (my 10:30 relative to the group). They left or moved out of my view and the world returned to normal and I returned to my SUV.

When I first started exiting my SUV, my wife tried to stop me or something but I didn't fully hear her. At one point, the girl did thank me for stepping in. I don't remember acknowledging her. When I re-entered the SUV, my wife said I did the right thing. I did have the gitters for a few minutes afterwards.

Bear in mind, I was unarmed except for a a small pocket knife. I didn't contact the Sheriff's department.
Click to expand...

I would have handled it as such:

I OC everywhere I can legally do so (since I don't have my permit yet) so I would have OC'd at said situation. I would have said "stop" from about 30 ft away and if they continued, I stand there and call the fuzz right in front of them. At that point, they have 3 choices:

1 - charge towardme "mad with anger"

2 - actually stop

3 - continue on as if I wasn't there

Choice 1 would have led to "charger" getting shot as I would "fear for my safety". Choice 2 everyone should have a happy ending. Choice 3 I would just call the fuzz and observe the situation until they arrived.

But seeing that I'm a black man with a gun :what:, who knows what would have happened.
 
VAopencarry

VAopencarry

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May 9, 2006
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Berryville-ish, VA
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danbus, You might want to re-think action #1. You can't legally shoot someone that is unarmed and basically just wants to kick your ass. Generally speaking, to shoot an unarmed person you need to show "disparity of force". Meaning multiple attackers or you are 5' 8", 140 lbs and the attacker is 6'3" 270 lbs.
 
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danbus

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Dec 3, 2006
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495
Location
Hampton, Virginia, USA
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hahahaha I understand

However I dont know if they are TRULY unarmed and what they are capable of. I wouldn't want to find out AFTER I got my ass kicked that said person was on drugs or martial arts expert (as unlikely as it my be).

I also carry a extend baton for those encounters where pulling isn't necessary. I'm not sure if their illegal, but I like to think of it as having a mini-bat with me.
 
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Tomahawk

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Oct 1, 2006
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4 hours south of HankT, ,
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A baton AND a pistol? That's too much for me. I carry one pistol, usuallywith no extra magazines, because that's convenient and comfortable. If it's comfortable, I carry more often, and that's the idea. I also don't want to look likethe plumberwalking around with all that junk on my belt. Some guys like to carry all kinds of stuff, spare magazines, flashlight, Leatherman, on and on. Looks like Batman. Fine if you do, just not the image I want to convey.

In any case, if I'm carrying a gun in an encounter, I'm not going to stand around for a close-in fight. I'm either gonna draw on the guy, or if possible, retreat while facing him, in which case I have the option to draw or run for it. The very LAST thing I want to do is have to deal with shooting someone.

Nor do I want to get into a grappling match or a fistfight while carrying; if I lose the fight I could lose my gun or even be shot with it.

One thing I've learned about myself since I started carrying: I'm a lot less likely to lose my temper than I was 10 years ago. I don't gesture to people in traffic, I cross the street if I think there's trouble ahead, I try not to raise my voice, etc. I keep my distance from possible trouble to increase the chance that I'll have more time to react. If trouble starts, it'll be looking for me, not the the other way around, and I want it to be clear that I did not provoke it.
 
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danbus

Regular Member
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Dec 3, 2006
Messages
495
Location
Hampton, Virginia, USA
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I dont mind carrying the baton as it's small and I can fit it in my back pocket. However, I would like to purchase a small fixed blade knife, instead of the baton. I did purchase a pen that has atiny

LOL, it would be nice to carry my katana...but I would have concealment issues.:p

Even before I started to carry, I was never a "angry" person. I make it my business to avoid conflict, and I don't look threatening at all, so trouble has to work extra hard to find me. In the event trouble should find me, I'm sure I can run faster than the other person.

In a nutshell, everyone situation is different and a major part IMO is BG vs regular joe that wants trouble. A BG would get shot in my world and a regular joe would get tired of chasing me.
 
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longwatch

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May 14, 2006
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Virginia, USA
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I have an ASP baton myself but I am hesitant to carry it, at least concealed. While ASP batons aren't specifically mentioned in 18.2-308 section, I think there is a risk that a concealed ASP baton might be interpreted as a weapon of like kind to a spring stick or blackjack. Well probably not blackjacks since by 18.2-309 they are illegal to sell in VA and ASPs are quite available and legal. I only say this because they have made a similar leap in case law with equivocating Butterfly knives with switchblades.

18.2-308
A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation,
(ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack;
or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

N. As used in this article:
"Spring stick" means a spring-loaded metal stick activated by pushing a button which rapidly and forcefully telescopes the weapon to several times its original length

So if you choose to carry an ASP play it safe and carry it openly, but that is only my conservative opinion, it may be legal to conceal them. Anyhow I think you can do pretty well finding a baton when necessary if you start practicing looking for improvised weapons. Or you can carry items useful for such a role. Something like a ASP Defender and a Surefire E2D Executive Defender, or a Kubotan can be useful to carry. Heck a walking stick or cane is legal and virtually unrestricted as to carry, probably more effective than an ASP as well.
 
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