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Thread: Problems

  1. #1
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    I was in my local gun store here in PA and I asked them about whether or not they open carry when they are not at work. I got a quick snapped back answer of no one is allowed to do that and my information must be wrong. I brought up the court case of ortiz v. commonwealthand I was told that pertained to on your own property. so having been met with such opposition I decided to check into it further. so I called the attorney generals office. I got a nice guy on the other end who explained that as far as the law went there wasn't a law saying I could or couldn't carry openly. (with the exception to philly) .. so if you are from PA don't get discouraged by the ignorance of one. since I now have a reasurance and I will nowgo back to that gun store and explain my side to him.

  2. #2
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    I have found that some gun shops can be just as bad as cops when it comes to knowing the gun laws. It's sad that most gun owners know the laws better than the people who sell them and the people who are required to enforce said laws. (Let me make it clear: most cops know the laws and are very professional and respectable, but there are a few out there who seem to make it up as they go along.)

    Anyway, let us know how it goes when you correct the gun shop. Sometimes you have to educate people oneat a time!

  3. #3
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    One of the biggest mistakes is to assume an employee (or even the owner) of a gun shop knows what the hell they're talking about. I've been in several shops where the guy behind the counter was so stupid I just wanted to puke.

    But the winner goes to the arrogant, know-it all-blow hards at Badger Outdoors in West Milwaukee. I'm stunned at some of the nonsense that has come out of some of the employees mouths.

  4. #4
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    Sadly, I have experienced the same gun-shop ignorance in TN. It has happened to me twice. I think some dealers have a "I've been doing this for a long time so I know everything" complex.

    ProguninTN

  5. #5
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    I had a gun dealer tell me that Ihave toput my gun into a paper bag (unloaded of course!)and take it along to the courthouse to apply for my carry permit. I pity the poor guy who would be naive enough to follow that advice.

  6. #6
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    stevemark wrote:
    I had a gun dealer tell me that Ihave toput my gun into a paper bag (unloaded of course!)and take it along to the courthouse to apply for my carry permit. I pity the poor guy who would be naive enough to follow that advice.
    HAHAHAHA!!!! Moron.

    I have only spoken to one of the employees at Deb's gun range, he was aware of legality of OC, however advised against it in certain locales... I told him he was entitled to his opinion of course, but I disagreed respectfully.



  7. #7
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    laws only tell you what is illegal. Since there is no law against open carry, it is therefore a legal act.

  8. #8
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    Try this people, works for my buddies who arn't LEOs:

    "If I was in uniform, would you be worried if my gun was exposed like this?"

    Asking that question makes the person think you're an LEO, but in reality, you're just asking a simple question. You're not saying you're an LEO, or anything close. Security guard? Military? P.I.? Either way, people will assume you're an LEO, based on the fact you have a gun and you mention uniform..

    for my buddies, NEVER once have they had anything called on them, or kicked out of a store/resturant after asking that simple question

  9. #9
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    Personally I would not recommend trying to get people to believe you are a cop through disinformation. I don't see how anything good can come from that.

    Why not just be straight up with anyone asking?

    Just my .02

  10. #10
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    People can think what they wish.

    You're not telling them you're a cop. You dont claim to be a cop. You are asking them a question; If I was in uniform, would you still be worried?


    common sense says nothing bad will happen

  11. #11
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    Adamdude04 wrote:
    People can think what they wish.

    You're not telling them you're a cop. You dont claim to be a cop. You are asking them a question; If I was in uniform, would you still be worried?


    common sense says nothing bad will happen
    Just like putting a light bar on your car and flashing it behind motorists isn't telling them you're a cop...

    It also entirely defeats the purpose of OC for advocacy, but more importantly panders to the notion among many Americans that only LEOs have the right to protect themselves. Attempting to commit a crime (impersonating an LEO) in order to dilute a constitutional as well as human right seems so wrong to me on so many levels.

  12. #12
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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Adamdude04 wrote:
    People can think what they wish.

    You're not telling them you're a cop. You dont claim to be a cop. You are asking them a question; If I was in uniform, would you still be worried?


    common sense says nothing bad will happen
    Just like putting a light bar on your car and flashing it behind motorists isn't telling them you're a cop...

    It also entirely defeats the purpose of OC for advocacy, but more importantly panders to the notion among many Americans that only LEOs have the right to protect themselves. Attempting to commit a crime (impersonating an LEO) in order to dilute a constitutional as well as human right seems so wrong to me on so many levels.
    It's funny how you bring up "lightbar on your car".. Funny because I had a TomarLED lightbar on the roof of my durango. For many of the police stations out in Jersey I would be of assistance and help direct traffic. I was able to do this being I was an explorer. My LED lightbar as many of you know, are white/clear in color, and when on, was all orange in color.and it was nice to drive down the highway, or on city streets in my silver durango and many people would get out of my way (not because I had the lightbar on,but because it was a durango, common police suv in Jersey. and there was a lightbar on the roof, which if I look in my rearview, and I see a lightbar like that, I just move to the next lane, I'm not going to chance if it's an officer or not). Yeah they THOUGHT I was a cop, but wasn't. You can't control what people think. But I guess at the time I should have been thrown in jail for having a lightbar on my truck, because people THOUGHT I was a cop.. I can see how that is also impersonating an officer being it is a newer version lighbar made/designed without colored lenses.

    I also had two strobes in my headlights, and two strobes in each tail light, which I never used unless required to in order to direct traffic or if in route to a fire call

    I stand by my case, you can't change what people think. You can control what they think. If you went to court, you'd come out free if someone wasted their time to take you in for impersonting an officer based on the question "if I was in uniform, would you be worried?". That question doesn't contain cop, officer, trooper, law, enforcment, security, or any other possible words in order to make that question, turn into a felony charge.

  13. #13
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    Adamdude04 wrote:
    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Adamdude04 wrote:
    People can think what they wish.

    You're not telling them you're a cop. You dont claim to be a cop. You are asking them a question; If I was in uniform, would you still be worried?


    common sense says nothing bad will happen
    Just like putting a light bar on your car and flashing it behind motorists isn't telling them you're a cop...

    It also entirely defeats the purpose of OC for advocacy, but more importantly panders to the notion among many Americans that only LEOs have the right to protect themselves. Attempting to commit a crime (impersonating an LEO) in order to dilute a constitutional as well as human right seems so wrong to me on so many levels.
    It's funny how you bring up "lightbar on your car".. Funny because I had a TomarLED lightbar on the roof of my durango. For many of the police stations out in Jersey I would be of assistance and help direct traffic. I was able to do this being I was an explorer. My LED lightbar as many of you know, are white/clear in color, and when on, was all orange in color.and it was nice to drive down the highway, or on city streets in my silver durango and many people would get out of my way (not because I had the lightbar on,but because it was a durango, common police suv in Jersey. and there was a lightbar on the roof, which if I look in my rearview, and I see a lightbar like that, I just move to the next lane, I'm not going to chance if it's an officer or not). Yeah they THOUGHT I was a cop, but wasn't. You can't control what people think. But I guess at the time I should have been thrown in jail for having a lightbar on my truck, because people THOUGHT I was a cop.. I can see how that is also impersonating an officer being it is a newer version lighbar made/designed without colored lenses.

    I also had two strobes in my headlights, and two strobes in each tail light, which I never used unless required to in order to direct traffic or if in route to a fire call

    I stand by my case, you can't change what people think. You can control what they think. If you went to court, you'd come out free if someone wasted their time to take you in for impersonting an officer based on the question "if I was in uniform, would you be worried?". That question doesn't contain cop, officer, trooper, law, enforcment, security, or any other possible words in order to make that question, turn into a felony charge.
    Ah-ah, don't go twisting my words. There's a difference between letting people think you're an LEO, and misleading them to think you are. I guess it's moreso following the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. In addition to the thoughts I posted regarding how doing what you described just reinforces the notion that regular citizens shouldn't have the right to carry firearms for self-defense.

    Perhaps a better way to respond to people, in a similar way, would be, "I'm not a police officer or security guard. But just as they carry handguns for protection, I carry one for protection as well. I'm sorry if you're worried by the fact that I'm not in uniform, though I'm just exercising my rights as a citizen of the United States of America and my rights as a free man." You would respond to their concerns, get across your point that you're just the same as an LEO, you advocate gun carry rights, and you avoid misrepresenting yourself.

  14. #14
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    Bolt06 wrote:
    I got a quick snapped back answer of no one is allowed to do that and my information must be wrong. ...
    Your Pennsylvania Gun Rights
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum61/3424.html

    Print this out and give it to them on your next trip. Encourage them to do their own research as they are QUITE mistaken.

    You could also write the URL of this website on the back, in the notes section. Along with the PAFOA /CC&OC forum.
    http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/
    So they can read about people OC'ing.




  15. #15
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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Adamdude04 wrote:
    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Adamdude04 wrote:
    People can think what they wish.

    You're not telling them you're a cop. You dont claim to be a cop. You are asking them a question; If I was in uniform, would you still be worried?


    common sense says nothing bad will happen
    Just like putting a light bar on your car and flashing it behind motorists isn't telling them you're a cop...

    It also entirely defeats the purpose of OC for advocacy, but more importantly panders to the notion among many Americans that only LEOs have the right to protect themselves. Attempting to commit a crime (impersonating an LEO) in order to dilute a constitutional as well as human right seems so wrong to me on so many levels.
    It's funny how you bring up "lightbar on your car".. Funny because I had a TomarLED lightbar on the roof of my durango. For many of the police stations out in Jersey I would be of assistance and help direct traffic. I was able to do this being I was an explorer. My LED lightbar as many of you know, are white/clear in color, and when on, was all orange in color.and it was nice to drive down the highway, or on city streets in my silver durango and many people would get out of my way (not because I had the lightbar on,but because it was a durango, common police suv in Jersey. and there was a lightbar on the roof, which if I look in my rearview, and I see a lightbar like that, I just move to the next lane, I'm not going to chance if it's an officer or not). Yeah they THOUGHT I was a cop, but wasn't. You can't control what people think. But I guess at the time I should have been thrown in jail for having a lightbar on my truck, because people THOUGHT I was a cop.. I can see how that is also impersonating an officer being it is a newer version lighbar made/designed without colored lenses.

    I also had two strobes in my headlights, and two strobes in each tail light, which I never used unless required to in order to direct traffic or if in route to a fire call

    I stand by my case, you can't change what people think. You can control what they think. If you went to court, you'd come out free if someone wasted their time to take you in for impersonting an officer based on the question "if I was in uniform, would you be worried?". That question doesn't contain cop, officer, trooper, law, enforcment, security, or any other possible words in order to make that question, turn into a felony charge.
    Ah-ah, don't go twisting my words. There's a difference between letting people think you're an LEO, and misleading them to think you are. I guess it's moreso following the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. In addition to the thoughts I posted regarding how doing what you described just reinforces the notion that regular citizens shouldn't have the right to carry firearms for self-defense.

    Perhaps a better way to respond to people, in a similar way, would be, "I'm not a police officer or security guard. But just as they carry handguns for protection, I carry one for protection as well. I'm sorry if you're worried by the fact that I'm not in uniform, though I'm just exercising my rights as a citizen of the United States of America and my rights as a free man." You would respond to their concerns, get across your point that you're just the same as an LEO, you advocate gun carry rights, and you avoid misrepresenting yourself.
    All I can say is each to their own. My method works. Anyone can do what they want, and what works for them. I'm not here to argue, but to provide options for people, so use at your own risk! lol

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