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How big can you carry open?

longwatch

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No you could carry a M1A around without a permit as long as the loaded magazine is less than 21 rounds capacity. You could carry a AR-15 clone too as long as its loaded with a 20 magazine. A folding telescoping or stock or threaded barrel is what makes it an assault weapon by Virginia standards.
 

longwatch

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If you have a horse someone has made a scabbard for your saddle.
m-four-scabbard-complete.jpg
 

Thors_Mitersaw

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TEX1N wrote:
Another problem with this is; how do you carry around an assault rifle without brandishing it? Here is § 18.2-282 on brandishing:

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.
This is why open carry is legal, because if a handgun is in a holster you are not brandishing it. I think you would run into a lot of problems with an assault rifle and this section.
what a load of total shit! I mean come on, all anyone has to do to legally disarm you is say they were afraid of you?!?!?!?!!? WHAT THE ****!?!?!?!
 

Thors_Mitersaw

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longwatch wrote:
No you could carry a M1A around without a permit as long as the loaded magazine is less than 21 rounds capacity. You could carry a AR-15 clone too as long as its loaded with a 20 magazine. A folding telescoping or stock or threaded barrel is what makes it an assault weapon by Virginia standards.
So then a M4 or a M41Awould then be legal correct? So long as I dont have a20+ roundmagazine loaded into it?
 

TEX1N

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Thors_Mitersaw wrote:
...I mean come on, all anyone has to do to legally disarm you is say they were afraid of you?!?!?!?!?...


No, indirectly scaring people within itself is not illegal. Be careful about jumping to conclusions. There are two main elements that have to be metin order to violate § 18.2-282:

1) point, hold or brandish (any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance)

And

2) in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another

Both elements must be met before you could be charged with violating this law. This is VERY important, because in some states the wording for element 1 includes "displaying" a firearm. Therefore, in those states OC is illegal if it scares anyone. VA is not like that and OC is legal as long as you are not "brandishing."

Just out of curiosity, are you planning on OC'ing a rifle around town? Or are we just arguing the theoretical?
 

longwatch

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If the M4 clone has a telescoping stock, it cannot be carried loaded without a CHP in certain Urban areas. If it has a fixed stock, a semiautomatic rifle may be openly carried loaded with a magazine of up to 20 rounds, without a permit. If you have a CHP, you are exempt from the folding/telescoping stock, threaded barrel, and magazine capacity restrictions.

As for the M41A Pulse rifle, its a machine gun with a grenade launcher. You can't carry it around as it is prohibited by the uniform machine gun act.:dude:
6d_1.JPG


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M41A_Pulse_Rifle

If you meant an M1A, as long as the mag is 20 rounds or less its legal.
 

longwatch

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Tex, I was thinking about it today, and asked myself whats wrong with carrying a rifle for self defense? Sure it's mostly a theoretical exercise but I can imagine there are people out there whose only weapon might be a winchester .30-30.

Perhaps we are too pistol centric. I mean there are other weapons out there as well as other self defense philosophies. If we are going to protect open carry, I'm not sure limiting the right to daily carry of handguns is enough. Maybe we should think about long arms or edged weapons or whatever. With our uncertain times it might be a real good idea to be sure where our rights are on long guns.
 

Thors_Mitersaw

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longwatch wrote:
If the M4 clone has a telescoping stock, it cannot be carried loaded without a CHP in certain Urban areas. If it has a fixed stock, a semiautomatic rifle may be openly carried loaded with a magazine of up to 20 rounds, without a permit. If you have a CHP, you are exempt from the folding/telescoping stock, threaded barrel, and magazine capacity restrictions.

As for the M41A Pulse rifle, its a machine gun with a grenade launcher. You can't carry it around as it is prohibited by the uniform machine gun act.:dude:
6d_1.JPG


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M41A_Pulse_Rifle

If you meant an M1A, as long as the mag is 20 rounds or less its legal.
hey I am a scifi fan and sometimes it slips :p
 

Thors_Mitersaw

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TEX1N wrote:
Thors_Mitersaw wrote:
...I mean come on, all anyone has to do to legally disarm you is say they were afraid of you?!?!?!?!?...


No, indirectly scaring people within itself is not illegal. Be careful about jumping to conclusions. There are two main elements that have to be metin order to violate § 18.2-282:

1) point, hold or brandish (any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance)

And

2) in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another

Both elements must be met before you could be charged with violating this law. This is VERY important, because in some states the wording for element 1 includes "displaying" a firearm. Therefore, in those states OC is illegal if it scares anyone. VA is not like that and OC is legal as long as you are not "brandishing."

Just out of curiosity, are you planning on OC'ing a rifle around town? Or are we just arguing the theoretical?
totally about the theoretical but shoudl I choose to do so I should not be prevented from it
 

Thors_Mitersaw

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longwatch wrote:
Tex, I was thinking about it today, and asked myself whats wrong with carrying a rifle for self defense? Sure it's mostly a theoretical exercise but I can imagine there are people out there whose only weapon might be a winchester .30-30.

Perhaps we are too pistol centric. I mean there are other weapons out there as well as other self defense philosophies. If we are going to protect open carry, I'm not sure limiting the right to daily carry of handguns is enough. Maybe we should think about long arms or edged weapons or whatever. With our uncertain times it might be a real good idea to be sure where our rights are on long guns.
exactly. Besides it shoudl be pointed out that a rifle is a spear and a club in addiotion to its 'shooting" functions. And I always hear that any pistol is inferior to a rifle.
 

longwatch

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You know this is kind of a debate on fashion. While the OCDO community finds carry of pistols perfectly acceptable, but long gun carry is a bit outre outside of wilderness areas. However, the OC crowd is often considered wacky by the CCW crowd and all gun owners are considered nut cases by the antigunners and unfortunately as well as a lot of misinformed people. However, in principle the right of open carry is the right to be armed and I don't see how it is anyone's business in what manner we do it as long as we are not out with evil intent. That said, the waters have not been tested enough yet to say that long gun carry will not get you attention from Law Enforcement Officers, but sooner or later it will need to be exercised.
 

TEX1N

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Ok...fist off, since the M4's, AR-15's, M1A, and now the M41A have made their way into this thread, I have been treating it as a legal/theoretical issue and not as a practical issue.

Legally; yes you probably can carry a rifle in public in VA as long as you follow the aforementioned laws (and any other we have not discussed, not to mention any federal laws we have missed).

Theoretically; should you be able to carry a rifle for self defense? In my opinion, absolutely. Should you be able to carry any weapon for self defense? Under the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and Article I, Section 13 of the VA Constitution: No, only firearms are protected. Can it be argued that the right to self defense is a natural right (i.e. the right to life, liberty, and property), and one that stands above the constitution and any man-made government? IMO, yes. (However that is an argument for a different time, so I am going to keep this strictly to firearms.) Hence a firearm is a firearm, whether it be a handgun, rifle, or some fictional lead sprayer from the series Alien.

Practically; this is where it gets a little more complicated. Should we open carry a rifle for self defense? After trying to figure out how to word this, and thinking this over for a little while; I really don’t think I know the answer. Let me go over some issues that I have been trying to work out on the practical side:

1. Is it worth possible turning neutral people against us? For example, my mom has no problem with guns and with me carrying. However she is still warming up to the idea of OC. That being said if she saw a person walking around town with an assault rifle on their back, she would probably call the police.

2. How are the police/media going to respond? There have been three school shootings in the past week across the U.S. A rifle is generally an offensive weapon (whereas a handgun is a generally both defensive or offensive). I am definitely not saying that you shouldn't do something because the police or media is going to flam you, not at all. I am just saying that you don't want to "shoot yourself in the foot."

3. Tactically is a rifle more superior? I will agree that a rifle is a superior combat weapon, but is a rifle superior in noncombatant environments? After carrying one around for a few years in a noncombatant environment I would argue that it might not be. Rifles are big uncomfortable weapons when they are not in the ready (and the ready could be brandishing in VA). And it can take a little to go from a slung/ scabbard position to a firing position, especially in close combat. I do agree that this is more of an individual issue, but it should still be taken into consideration.
Well there you have it. I guess I am torn between the theoretical and the practical. I believe that someone should have the means to defend themselves by any means necessary. On the other had, over the past decade we (pro-gunners) have made a ton of progress one small step at a time and I don't want to do anything that would put that in jeopardy.

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." Yogi Berra
 

longwatch

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I am as torn as you as to what is legal and practical and my principles. You are right that we should recognize that our actions could hurt the OC cause. OTOH, thats what anti open carry gun owners have said too about OC in general. I think we need to keep the ball moving, but I am in favor of little steps as opposed to big leaps. So instead of openly carrying AR15s down Main Street Fairfax, maybe the old shotgun in the pickup truck gun rack is a better next step. Perhaps we wait for another 'Starbucks' type OC incident, and push the issue when the time comes.
 

Thors_Mitersaw

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longwatch wrote:
I am as torn as you as to what is legal and practical and my principles. You are right that we should recognize that our actions could hurt the OC cause. OTOH, thats what anti open carry gun owners have said too about OC in general. I think we need to keep the ball moving, but I am in favor of little steps as opposed to big leaps. So instead of openly carrying AR15s down Main Street Fairfax, maybe the old shotgun in the pickup truck gun rack is a better next step. Perhaps we wait for another 'Starbucks' type OC incident, and push the issue when the time comes.

I agree for as much as my opinion is worth here in this community. But I think it bears saying that a right you do not excercise will soon be lost.



What "starbucks" OC incident are you speaking of?
 

OC-Glock19

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I too would love to keep my M4 at hand in case I ever needed/wanted it, but I've been afraid of the reactions of the sheep if they saw it. They've been so conditioned by the news media that black rifles are only for SWAT teams or criminals that it would be asking for trouble to keep one handy. AR-15 style pistols may be a good middle ground to start with. It may not be the best choice for a personal defense weapon, but it gets that scary looking black gun out in the public eye, but I supposethat the public would be just as freaked out by it as they would by a rifle though.

I'm torn between the need to preserve our rights by exercising them and the FACT that the police will be called on me if I do. **sigh** :?
 

Thors_Mitersaw

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VAopencarry wrote:
I often tell other people "I hate people" and this bitch would be one excellent example as to why:

Openly carrying weapons is "not a good idea," said Kristen Rand of the Violence Policy Center in Washington. "This is the gun lobby's vision of how America should be. Everybody's packing heat and ready to engage in a shootout at the slightest provocation."

Icant believe this shit. I wanna go have a reaonable sit down with this person and explain the following to her tyrannical mind:


  • Americans use firearms to defend themselves from criminals at least 764,000 times a year. This figure is the lowest among a group of 9 nationwide surveys done by organizations including Gallup and the Los Angeles Times. (16b)

  • Washington D.C. enacted a virtual ban on handguns in 1976. Between 1976 and 1991, Washington D.C.'s homicide rate rose 200%, while the U.S. rate rose 12%. (1)

  • 221,443 concealed carry licenses were issued in Florida between October of 1987 and April of 1994. During that time, Florida recorded 18 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. (15)

  • As of 1998, no permit holder inFloridahas ever shot a police officer. There have been several cases in which a permit holder has protected an officer's life. (7)

  • As of 1998, nationwide, there has been 1 recorded incident in which a permit holder shot someone following a traffic accident. The permit holder was not charged, as the grand jury ruled the shooting was in self defense. (7) [eat that you stupid bitch!]
 
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