Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
I am pleased to announce that the Federal Way Police Department, via a training bulletin to all of it's officers, now recognizes peacible open carry as legal. Federal Way Police Department was notorious for it's officers arresting people for open carry.
Approximately 2 months ago, I sent an email to Anne Kirkpatrick, who is now Spokane's PD chief, advising her that several of her officers were stating that open carry was illegal. I advised her of the Department of Licensing's statement that Washington is an open carry state, and so on. I got little to no response to this other than "Thank you for your email"
After waiting about 2 months, I contacted the new interim chief, who was deputy chief and who handled the complaint when it was sent in two months ago. He told me the deputies were trained after my emailed. I asked at that point if they recognized open carry as legal. It was then that my correspondance shifted to a different person.
Despite my repeated contacts with her, asking the person if they recognized open carry as legal, they were cagey with their response, and wasn't willing to give me a straight answer.
So, I decided at this point to do what a friend of mine suggested: File a Public Records Act request for all of the material related to the issue. So I did.
4 days after the request was filed (they actually have 30 days and told me it would take a month, very quick!), they fulfilled the PRA request with the information I asked.
I now have in my possession the training bulletin to it's officers and support staff. I won't post the entire thing here, but here is the pertinent information. All italics and underlines are from the report, not me:
TOPIC: Open Carry of a Firearm in Washington
Purpose: To provide guidance in calls for service that involve a person who possesses a firearm that is exposed to public view.
Date: July 14, 2006.
Body:
Washington is an "open carry" state for firearms. This means there is a presumption that carrying a handgun in an exposed holster, for instance, is legal except where it is specifically illegalized. Open carry does not require a license. On the other hand, concealed carry of a firearm out in public is generally illegal without government authority (such as a state license or a police commission).
Later after going through certain statutes and meticulously articulating and enunciating the nuances of Washington law, we reach 9.41.270, the bain of open carriers existance in Washington State:
*In this law, mere possession of an openly carried handgun is not illegalized. In order to support an enforcement action under this law the officer must be able to articulate (describe in a convincing manner) malicious intent by the subject or circumstances that reasonably cause alarm to the public. IN either case, because open carry in Washington is presumptively legal, the articulation must include something beyond mere open possession.
*An example of illegal open carry under this law would be: a man argues with a store manager or at a meeting of the homeowner's association, he leaves angry; he returns to the premises and resumes the dispute, having a pistol openly carried in an exposed holster.
-----------
This is the correct interpretation of 9.41.270. This is more in line with the brandishing statutes of many states.
As I stated, Federal Way was one of the "problem cities" with open carrying. In fact, as part of my PRA request, I came across this little gem, sent from the person who actually wrote the training bulletin:
"I contacted some people on this, one of whom was [name redacted]. [name redacted, same person] said they have dismissed a couple of cases where FW officers clearly felt that mere possession of an openly carried pistol was illegal, and under the circumstances it wasn't."
Those arrests may have been the reason why Federal Way has been known as so problematic to openly carrying. Now this has been resolved. I will be contacting other local city PD's (in Pierce and King Counties, I don't forsee an issue much in Pierce though) and circulating the bulletin to them, to have them do the same thing within their departments.
Speaking of which, anyone here reside in the Spokane area? PM me. I think I may have Spokane City PD locked up (same PD chief now as Federal Way was), but Spokane County Sheriffs might be an issue. I need a scout of the territory. If we can get Spokane County to recognize open carry as legal and remind their deputies, then we can get started with Spokane Transit, who flat out told me open carry was illegal and prosecutable.
Regards,
Lonnie Wilson
I am pleased to announce that the Federal Way Police Department, via a training bulletin to all of it's officers, now recognizes peacible open carry as legal. Federal Way Police Department was notorious for it's officers arresting people for open carry.
Approximately 2 months ago, I sent an email to Anne Kirkpatrick, who is now Spokane's PD chief, advising her that several of her officers were stating that open carry was illegal. I advised her of the Department of Licensing's statement that Washington is an open carry state, and so on. I got little to no response to this other than "Thank you for your email"
After waiting about 2 months, I contacted the new interim chief, who was deputy chief and who handled the complaint when it was sent in two months ago. He told me the deputies were trained after my emailed. I asked at that point if they recognized open carry as legal. It was then that my correspondance shifted to a different person.
Despite my repeated contacts with her, asking the person if they recognized open carry as legal, they were cagey with their response, and wasn't willing to give me a straight answer.
So, I decided at this point to do what a friend of mine suggested: File a Public Records Act request for all of the material related to the issue. So I did.
4 days after the request was filed (they actually have 30 days and told me it would take a month, very quick!), they fulfilled the PRA request with the information I asked.
I now have in my possession the training bulletin to it's officers and support staff. I won't post the entire thing here, but here is the pertinent information. All italics and underlines are from the report, not me:
TOPIC: Open Carry of a Firearm in Washington
Purpose: To provide guidance in calls for service that involve a person who possesses a firearm that is exposed to public view.
Date: July 14, 2006.
Body:
Washington is an "open carry" state for firearms. This means there is a presumption that carrying a handgun in an exposed holster, for instance, is legal except where it is specifically illegalized. Open carry does not require a license. On the other hand, concealed carry of a firearm out in public is generally illegal without government authority (such as a state license or a police commission).
Later after going through certain statutes and meticulously articulating and enunciating the nuances of Washington law, we reach 9.41.270, the bain of open carriers existance in Washington State:
*In this law, mere possession of an openly carried handgun is not illegalized. In order to support an enforcement action under this law the officer must be able to articulate (describe in a convincing manner) malicious intent by the subject or circumstances that reasonably cause alarm to the public. IN either case, because open carry in Washington is presumptively legal, the articulation must include something beyond mere open possession.
*An example of illegal open carry under this law would be: a man argues with a store manager or at a meeting of the homeowner's association, he leaves angry; he returns to the premises and resumes the dispute, having a pistol openly carried in an exposed holster.
-----------
This is the correct interpretation of 9.41.270. This is more in line with the brandishing statutes of many states.
As I stated, Federal Way was one of the "problem cities" with open carrying. In fact, as part of my PRA request, I came across this little gem, sent from the person who actually wrote the training bulletin:
"I contacted some people on this, one of whom was [name redacted]. [name redacted, same person] said they have dismissed a couple of cases where FW officers clearly felt that mere possession of an openly carried pistol was illegal, and under the circumstances it wasn't."
Those arrests may have been the reason why Federal Way has been known as so problematic to openly carrying. Now this has been resolved. I will be contacting other local city PD's (in Pierce and King Counties, I don't forsee an issue much in Pierce though) and circulating the bulletin to them, to have them do the same thing within their departments.
Speaking of which, anyone here reside in the Spokane area? PM me. I think I may have Spokane City PD locked up (same PD chief now as Federal Way was), but Spokane County Sheriffs might be an issue. I need a scout of the territory. If we can get Spokane County to recognize open carry as legal and remind their deputies, then we can get started with Spokane Transit, who flat out told me open carry was illegal and prosecutable.
Regards,
Lonnie Wilson
C .When an officer saw me he asked me if I had a CPL.I replied that I did and he told me to cover it up.Didn,t look at my CPL .So at that time I complied and covered it with my shirt and when about what I was there for.So maybe these attitudes have changed.I also stop at a little coffee stand near my house OC and sometimes sit and BS with 2 Seatac motorcycle officers that don,t seam to mind .Never called me on it anyway.These 2 guys are actually a couple of the good guys.
