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Bad Run In

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Bolt06

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Jun 11, 2006
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86
Location
Levittown, Pennsylvania, USA
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Well thanks for all your help so far. I have decided to fight it. I also have found that the ticket was written for 50 yards away from where I was. because I was about 50-75 yards from there jurisdiction line. I have to research more to find out how flexible they are with the lines but the ticket was written incorrectly so I am going to start with that and work my way down the rest of the things that were incorrect about that night. any additional info is always welcome and appreciated. thanks
 
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Mike

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Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
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I left a voice mail for the boro police chief asking that he make sure his LEOs know that open cary is legal.

Form what your saying, the stop of you on your ATV was without basis. Please do pursue.
 
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Steve in PA

Regular Member
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Nov 12, 2006
Messages
158
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Somewhere in PA
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Maybe instead of blaming the LEO's about their supposed lack of knowledge, the ATV riders should read up on the laws too;

§7727. Additional limitations on operation.

Except as otherwise permitted under Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall:
(1) Operate or ride in any snowmobile or ATV with any bow and arrows or with any firearm in his possession unless it is unstrung or unloaded.


So unless you were OC'ing with an unloaded handgun, you are guilty of an offense.
 
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smokeeater

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Oct 23, 2006
Messages
17
Location
bradford, Pennsylvania, USA
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if you were paying attention he has a permit to carry and riding an atv or snow mobile is the same as a car. your refering to hunting laws. so if he was hunting and had a rifle then yes that is illegle.
 
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Steve in PA

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Somewhere in PA
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If you were paying attention it doesn't matter if he has a CCW or not, current law says that you cannot carry on an ATV unless it is unloaded.

And I am not refering to hunting, the section states "except as permitted" in the hunting section.
 
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TEX1N

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Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
842
Location
Northern VA, Virginia, USA
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Steve in PA wrote:
If you were paying attention it doesn't matter if he has a CCW or not, current law says that you cannot carry on an ATV unless it is unloaded.

And I am not refering to hunting, the section states "except as permitted" in the hunting section.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link to the section of PA code that you are referencing?
 
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Steve in PA

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
158
Location
Somewhere in PA
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Bolt06 wrote:
Well thanks for all your help so far. I have decided to fight it. I also have found that the ticket was written for 50 yards away from where I was. because I was about 50-75 yards from there jurisdiction line. I have to research more to find out how flexible they are with the lines but the ticket was written incorrectly so I am going to start with that and work my way down the rest of the things that were incorrect about that night. any additional info is always welcome and appreciated. thanks
Click to expand...

If they observed the violation in their town, it doesn't matter where they issue the citation.

If you are saying the violation took place outside their jurisdiction you may have a case, unless the officers have an agreement with the other town.
 
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Steve in PA

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Somewhere in PA
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Mike wrote:
I left a voice mail for the boro police chief asking that he make sure his LEOs know that open cary is legal.

Form what your saying, the stop of you on your ATV was without basis. Please do pursue.
Click to expand...

Open carry is legal, but if you read the section I posted, the firearm must be unloaded.

So, if they LEO's knew this, then they had enough reasonable suspicion to stop the operator.
 
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bayboy42

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Oct 20, 2006
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Gloucester Point, Virginia, USA
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Click here for the reg that Steve in PA is referencing (Its the full reg so do a search for 7727 to save yourself some time). Mike...help us out with some insight.......maybe a glitch in the PA law system that needs attention???
 
lockman

lockman

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Aug 19, 2006
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Location
Elgin, Illinois, USA
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Are LEO's exempt from this provision? It also states "unless otherwise permitted under Tile 34" Title 34 is pretty big? It may be there somewhere.
 
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bayboy42

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Gloucester Point, Virginia, USA
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Based on the reading that I've done thus far (which is not all inclusive) I believe the exemptions referenced in Title 34 pertain to the use of ATVs on designated State game land roads for persons who hold a valid disabled person permit to hunt from a vehicle (i.e. You can't have a loaded gun on an ATV unless you hold a valid disabled permit to hunt from a vehicle). IANAL:lol:
 
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Mike

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Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
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bayboy42 wrote:
Click here for the reg that Steve in PA is referencing (Its the full reg so do a search for 7727 to save yourself some time). Mike...help us out with some insight.......maybe a glitch in the PA law system that needs attention???
Click to expand...

This glitch is well recognized - the Alleghenny County Sportsmen's Lueague and others are trying to get it changed - I think a bill is or soon will be introduced in Harrisbugh to address this, at least to give LTCF holders an exemption.

BTW, Steve's analysis (above) of the incident is valuable - if the police had no other basis to stop the ATV except knowledge that the person had a gun, the stop would be problematic as the individualized suspicion should be that he had a loaded gun to be in violation of the law.
 
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Pwning the Papacy

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Dec 7, 2006
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, ,
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If the police could muster up that reason, a 'loaded gun clause' doesn't matter because Terry allows the result of Terry hogwash to turn up other unsuspected illegal doings.

Fortunately, a law like that is unconstitutional based on the PA Constitution...
Right to Bear Arms Section 21. The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.
Click to expand...
:cool:
 
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Steve in PA

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A Terry stop is for finding weapons, nothing more. And you must be able to articulate the reason why you think this person may be armed.
 
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