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Thread: Open Carry Day

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=224589

    Over on The High Road forum they have been kicking around the idea of a National Open Carry Day. The proposed date is Feb. 2, which wouldn't be my first choice but it seems to be the consensus over there. Not that any of us here need a special date to OC but I think we should certainly participate. Any thoughts on how to organize this?

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    Regular Member reefteach's Avatar
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    I dont know much about organizing stuff like this, but I will definately be an active participant

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    How about everydaY?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Of course everyday, but a lot of people need an excuse for their first time to OC. Also, if we can increase our numbers even for one day can't hurt the cause.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I guess it's a good idea. However, on Feb 2d I think I will have so many layers of clothes on OC might be difficult.:shock:

    Unless the NRA was spreading the word I think it will be some work. Maybe contacting gun rights organization at the state level? I know- you know this but will say it anyway. A lot of 'gun people' do not accept OC so it might not be well received.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Thats what I thought about february 2, I want people to OC, but not get pnuemonia doing it.

    However, they seem fixated on 2/2, in honor of the 2nd Amendment, so what can we do?

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    Founder's Club Member OC-Glock19's Avatar
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    How about April 13, Thomas Jefferson's birthday? I think it would be a fitting memorial. (And a little warmer than Feb. 2)

    A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. -- Thomas Jefferson

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    That is a great idea!

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    Regular Member reefteach's Avatar
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    TJs birthday! Great idea! Warmer weather, and a fitting tribute to one whom many may not know enough about.

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    TJs b-day is a better idea. Especially since in Charlottesville and Albemarle County it is already a holiday, complete with county and city offices closed, fireworks etc. Count me in.



    Goliath

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    VAopencarry wrote:
    I guess it's a good idea. However, on Feb 2d I think I will have so many layers of clothes on OC might be difficult.:shock:
    Wow, I'd be wishing I was in Virginia in February! I think OC in Wisconsin in February would necessitate a long gun..... Hmmmm, my Mossberg 590 with bayonet attached might work....
    A. Gold

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    Regular Member Tricorn's Avatar
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    There was a proposal over a year ago (on this site) to have a national open carry day on the second of every month. Not much became of it.

    I would think the birthday of James Madison would be more appropriate than Jefferson's. Madison is generally considered the Father of the Constitution and the principal writer of the Second Amendment. His birthday, however, is March 16. Matbe a little warmer than February 2, but still cold.

    A more fitting day would be the day of the Battle of Concord and Lexington, April 19. It would commemorate the American Patriots fighting to keep their arms from being confiscated by the British. Plus it is warmer and more conducive to open carrying.

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    What about July 4th?!?

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    TEX1N wrote:
    What about July 4th?!?

    Would work much for me I only drink two days a year first is my birthday and next is the 4th. guns and gutrot dont mix well.

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    I think that making a day for Open Carrying might just make more people feel more comfortable about open carrying on a Daily basis. Lets spread the word. February 2, 2007. Hurry!!!!!!!



























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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    I like the idea of promoting open carry in a more organized fashion. In my state, open carry is not regulated, but it is not practiced very often. For some time now, a significant percentage of the police in the three largest towns would hassle someone if they were carrying openly. They seemed to know the law allowed people to carry openly, but they acted as if the law was old and no longer applied, so they chose to ignore it. With the prevalence of concealed carry, now their comment is, "If you want to carry a gun, you need to get a concealed carry permit."

    Personally, I'm offended that I had to get a CCDW license to carry concealed, but I did. Tactically, I prefer concealed carry. But from a gun rights perspective, I prefer open carry.

    We now have the problem that open carry is so rare in many parts of the country, that even where it's legal, the person exercising that right is considered to be a kook or weirdo. People call the police and the police threaten an arrest for disturbing the peace or something like that.

    I think there is strength in numbers, but I also think that simply declaring a national Open Carry Day will result in a lot of martyrs for the cause. We'll have a lot of individuals carrying openly, but the current problems with open carry will persist. It'll be society and police against the individual. In a worst case scenario, it may backfire and some of the resulting confrontations may result in restricting open carry. If the law doesn't match the consensus, the law will be changed.

    I think a much better way to achieve the goal of educating the public about open carry and gun laws would be to have open carry events, much like the ones that have occurred in Virginia. I'd like to organize a local Open Carry Ice Cream Social. If a group of 50 people assembled peacefully at a picnic to enjoy an ice cream sundae, how could anyone be upset by that? It would be much more difficult to bully or persecute all those people when they're assembled as a group.

    Gun control advocates have succeeded by associating guns with violent crime. When people don't own guns, they only see guns in the context of violent crime. Open carry events can change that. Society would see that guns are not a problem, and the problem is crime. Eventually, guns will again be seen as the solution and not the problem.

    Instead of 10,000 individuals spread across the nation exercising their right to openly carry a weapon and causing some people to freak out and causing some police to be dispatched to deal with a perceived problem, I'd rather see the same number of people congregating in groups of 20 to 50 people, in a setting that is publicly visible but not likely to result in fear or concern.

    From a public relations perspective, I see a lot of potential for some of the open carry individuals to inadvertently generate bad media coverage, while an Open Carry Ice Cream Social or Open Carry Barbecue is so unusual that even a media with a left leaning agenda would feel compelled to cover it, and it would be almost impossible to be spun in a negative manner. Depending on local attitudes to guns and the attitude of an individual openly carrying a gun, I can see an individual practicing the right to openly carry as resulting in the occasional "Deranged Gunman Menaces Local Wal-Mart" story. When events like that start to go bad, they can become very bad, very fast. Add a little mass hysteria egging on the police, and it becomes a situation where the individual's rights are suppressed and one person's word against a group seldom wins in court.

    Consider it from the perspetive of the gun wary public, ignorant of the gun laws. They see an individual with a gun as a possible threat. "People don't usually walk around in my town with a gun strapped to their hip. Is this guy crazy? Are we in danger?" However, if they see a group of people in the park grilling out, talking to each other, laughing, and generally engaged in nice non-threatening behavior, but they're all wearing guns, the attitude is completely different. It's part of the reason there's strength in numbers. The assumption is, 50 people aren't all crazy. A person viewing that scene isn't threatened. Sociologically, we perceive ourselves as part of a group. In this case, they all have guns and I don't. It really turns the tables. Instead of an armed individual in an unarmed group, each of the observers now have the feeling of being an unarmed individual in an armed group. The sociology and psychology are completely different. If the armed group is behaving peacefully, there is no sense of fear, and instead there is a sense of curiosity. A curious person is in a condition that is conducive to learning.

    And much as I like the 2nd amendment significance of a national Open Carry Day on 2/2, early February is just about the worst day possible for such an event. The entire idea is to openly carry a weapon,and that becomes a bit contrived when bundled up in a parka. And keeping with my previous comments, who wants to have a barbecue and eat ice cream in February?

    Just my newbie two cents.

    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    Liberty,
    You make some interesting points, and your analysis may be largely correct, though I doubt the level of hysteria you fear would come to pass. In any event, there are already three groups of Virginians who are quietly, and without fanfare doing pretty much what you suggest: meeting in groups and enjoying dinners together at local restaurants. Currently there are active groups in northern VA, Richmond and the Hampton Roads areas. Also, after every Virginia Civilian Defense League meeting there is "fellowship time" in some local restaurant, where up to 50 polite, well-mannered folks carry openly. None of these dinner meetings has caused any alarm or negative publicity, but I'm sure many restaurant staff and citizens have noticed, and realized that open carry isn't the fear-inducing event the hyperventilating media would like to portray it as.

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    That's why I like the idea of open carry events, where groups of armed citizens are carrying openly. The attitude about guns is a lot different among those who don't own guns and have been all but brain washed by the anti-gun crowd. They fear guns. Seeing a group of armed people would definitely make them look twice, and it would reinforce a positive image of responsible gun owners for a change. People need to see responsible citizens with guns and realize the guns aren't the problem.

    My real concern about a national Open Carry Day is the way an armed individual would be perceived in many areas that are less enlightened. Because open carry isn't seen in these areas, it's assumed to be illegal. When attitudes differ so drastically from the legal reality, I think we need to be careful about how we choose to educate the public. Any group of people has someone who doesn't play well with others. All it takes is one misunderstanding between a hot head gun advocate and everyone else, and all the good examples will go unnoticed and that one incident will be blown out of proportion by the media and the entire Open Carry Day will backfire.

    I'd much rather see 200 group events that are self monitored and internally regulated than 10,000 individuals trying to push the envelope and force society to recognize the right to openly carry a gun. I like the odds a lot better with fewer events with more gun owners involved in each. There's less chance of a misunderstanding resulting in negative exposure, for several reasons.

    I discussed this with my wife, and she said we should give up because attitudes and perceptions have already swung too far in the anti-gun direction. I don't think we should give up. Look at Harley-Davidson. Their reputation was associated with outlaw biker gangs terrorizing small towns and victimizing people. In a couple of short decades, they completely turned that image around. Jay Leno, Arnold Schwarzenegger and NBA players ride Harleys. Public perceptions have swung so far, they're now fighting to keep just enough of the bad boy image to make their products interesting and appealing.

    Gun attitudes can change, but it will take a concerted and planned effort, probably not too different from the ad campaign executed by Harley Davidson. It didn't hurt that Harley also increased their quality. In a similar fashion, responsible gun owners need to continue to improve in our efforts to advocate punishing criminals and keeping legally purchased guns out of the hands of criminals. The latter issue is the only legitimate reason I have seen being argued for limiting access to guns by law abiding citizens. As we all know, the rest of the "reasons" are nothing more than hollow fear mongering.

    Edited to add:

    PS - I also think it'll be easier to motivate people to attend group Open Carry events. There is the social aspect. It'll be fun to meet like minded people and have a cookout or other enjoyable event. There's also the aspect of political cover and social acceptance. I don't want to be the sole person arrayed against a group, trying to convince them that I'm right and they're all wrong. It's easier and more efective to change people's attitudes as a group. Finally, a group Open Carry event would occur at a specific place, and would be a large enough event that it'd be more likely to attract the media and the message is then spread much farther than the event itself. The only way the media is likely to be involved in a national Open Carry Day where individuals practice their right is going to be the rare "Lone Gunman Arrested At Convenience Store" story, buit that will be the only message from the event that is spread far and wide, and it would more than undo the other individual efforts that were positive. Open carry is great where there isn't already too much public opposition and fear. Where the attitudes need to change the most, I think a group effort will receive the most attention and will result in the most positive coverage.

    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

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    Liberty4Ever wrote:
    Seeing a group of armed people would definitely make [others] look twice, and it would reinforce a positive image of responsible gun owners for a change. People need to see responsible citizens with guns and realize the guns aren't the problem.

    My real concern about a national Open Carry Day is the way an armed individual would be perceived in many areas that are less enlightened.
    I disagree completely - society needs to see ordinary people going about their normal business peacibly armed.

    While there is nothing wrong with meetups, "group only" open carry is more likely to be mis-perceived and make it appear like you have to run in packs to carry openly.

    What we want on open carry day is just like "take your daughter to shool day" - average folks going about their buisiness on their own only carrying.

    There are many occasions where gun owners may want to meet up and eat, go a meeting, etc.

    But to rove about openly armed in groups only on open carry day is counter-productive, and should be openly discouraged. OCD ought to be for individual carry.

    And again, holding an open carry day in february is not helpful - most of the US is still covered in snow and open carry in this sort of wheather is impratical.

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    Not to be a dead horse, but everyday I can is Open Carry day for me.

    Why wait on a day, just go do it.

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    I appreciate the idea that everyone needs to see ordinary people going about their normal business peaceably armed. To me, that is the goal. However, where I live, open carry is completely legal, yet it is simply not done. Ever. To do so would cause alarm, and would result in police intervention. It would result in either open carry converted to closed carry and a stern warning (assuming a CCDW), expulsion from a business, or a high profile arrest. None of those would send the correct gun rights message, nor would they help educate people about the 2nd amendment.

    I think we want the same thing, but I see the need for a two step process in some areas like mine. If you can openly carry without any of the unpleasant consequences I described, please do so. You are fortunate to be in such an enlightened location, and you have lost a lot less than the rest of us. Carry openly to guard against an erosion of your rights.

    I'm stuck in the middle. People don't carry openly here, but the laws in a lot of states completely prohibit citizens from open carry.

    In my experience, the more urban the area, the more resistance there is to open carry. My comments refer to those urban areas that already have a deep seated fear of guns in most of the population.

    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

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    You are more likely to encounter these problems, if they exist for an individual, doing somthing en masse to scare people - as it might be perceived.

    But I doubt anyone is going to be arrested in KY, let alone convicted,for obeyng the law, and if so, that is what needs to happen anyway to get the problem fixed.



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    I've open carried in Carytown (in a highly urban area of Richmond) both alone and with a friend about a dozen times, never had a problem. Have been into most stores in Carytown without a problem - Plan 9, Ellwood Thompsons grocery, Mongrel, McDonalds, the flower shop, For The Love of Chocolate, etc. Its a pretty upper-middle class liberal (for Richmond) area, and I have never had a problem.

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    I spent over a month in the Lexington, KY area. During that time I OC'ed everywhere I went. Even had a lot of conversation with Japanese nationals because many had never seen a gun except on TV - there is a Suzuki plant there or something like that.

    I OC'ed in public everyday, I was living in a hotel and had to eat out and do all my basics in public.

    I did not have a single negative encounter. I even talked with a few LEOs and walked past many. Again, no problems. I was mainly around Man O' War Blvd and a few other places that I just know how to get to and from.

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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    I'm struck by the tremendous difference between Libert4ever's perception and Possumboy's actual experiences in Lexinton. Perhaps many people assume that because OC is simply "not done", that doing it will result in terrible consequences. It took news stories of a few high profile mistakes by the police in Virginia to remind the masses that OC is perfectly legal, and to educate the police that they couldn't hassle decent people for doing something that is perfectly legal. I'm not aware of any backlash to outlaw OC here. Hell, people can OC in the General Assembly building in Richmond if they want to. (tho' you need a concealed carry permit to do so. Go figure.)

    I have a friend who moved to the Lexington area after 20 years in VA. I'll have to email him to find out his experiences.

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