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What the H*** is going on in Staunton, VA?

CPerdue

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I had to drive through Staunton yesterday. Decided to stop and OC just to be ornery. Used a restroom <ghasp!>, bought junk food and coffee, made it a point to talk to three random people and hold doors for ladies. Considered asking the cashier to call the cops and report, "A polite man with a gun had patronized the business and gone peacefully on his way," but she was busy. Maybe next time - the culture war continues.
 

Mike

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DKSuddeth wrote:
was there not a supreme court case that did indeed declare that you HAVE to provide, at minimum, a name if you are stopped by a police officer?

Yes, they did. The case is Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of the state of Nevada, 03-5554.
Wrong.

Hiible upheld a Nevada statute, applicable only in Nevada, applicable only to Terry stops, and presumably excludingthose who would be incriminated per se by stating their name (i.e., the proverbial wanted bank robber).

Again, VA and Staunton have no stop & ID laws, nor do the police now even contend that any was any Terry stop to begin with.

NOTE: This was not meant to be a (total) flame - everybody should just try to think thru what cases mean as applied to other fact patterns in other states - if the court holds a state staute to be constitutional, then the holding might indicate that other similar state statutes would be so as well - but that is a far cry from the SC just giving police everywhere some power.
 

VAopencarry

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Mr Y, thanks for clearing that up. I at first wondered where this Mr X came from. Then, for reasons unknown,(maybe because his name came up later?) I presumed it to be Super Moderator. Then I was waiting for a wrathful firestrom of litigation to come hurling upon the Staunton PD:D but I guess that isn't going to happen now...........darn!
 

longwatch

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I also thought Mr X was a reference to another case involving Mr S. The Fairfax one about SSNs. Good joke though.
 

Anubis

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I didn't see in this thread whether Casa di Scotto's Italian Restaurant serves alcohol, but I would bet that any Italian restaurant would at least serve beer and wine.

I recall reading that in Virginia concealed carry in an alcohol-serving restaurant is banned, so a patron that is legally carrying concealed when he arrives at such a restaurant must switch to open carry.

If that is correct, there can be no legal basis for the reportedharassment. Bizarre!
 

norahc

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I love the reply in their "Final Denial of Wrongdoing" [/sarcasm off]

The situation presented clearly involved adults who felt assertive enough to possess firearms, even in a place where children were present and where, according to the establishment's management, this type of situation, rarely, if ever has occurred.
(Emphasis added)

Does anyone else have a problem with this statement?

According to them, all adults who possess firearms are assertive...as if that's a bad thing. They also use the typical, "It's for the children" whine because they have no legal/factual basis for their opinions.
 

Dutch Uncle

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"Where children are present". What crapola!

Pray tell, is there any public place where children definitely wouldn't be present? Does this mean the folks in question would be harrassed if they carried at a supermarket, pharmacy, gas station, 7-11, etc, etc? How dreadfully assertive that would be. I think we're seeing the flop sweat of desperate and illogical people here, though I will admit, people of this type can cause headaches.
 

possumboy

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norahc wrote:
I love the reply in their "Final Denial of Wrongdoing" [/sarcasm off]

The situation presented clearly involved adults who felt assertive enough to possess firearms, even in a place where children were present and where, according to the establishment's management, this type of situation, rarely, if ever has occurred.
(Emphasis added)

Does anyone else have a problem with this statement?

According to them, all adults who possess firearms are assertive...as if that's a bad thing. They also use the typical, "It's for the children" whine because they have no legal/factual basis for their opinions.

Better remove all you bumper stickers and not say anything about the government if children are present also!
You would not want to be assertive with your first amendment rights either - in a place where children were present.
I guess I have to let soldiers take over my house and food since I have children in my house, I would not want to be assertive.

I'll could go on for about 22 more times - I guess you are just screwed with the prohibition amendments, one to enact and to retract - you will have to be assertive grocery stores? They are assertive and children are there all the time!
 

possumboy

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Don't know why there were two. Click happy I guess.

Just pretend I'm the government and ignore any mistakes I make, because it is for your own good.
 

Anubis

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"The situation presented clearly involved adults who felt assertive enough to possess firearms, even in a place where children were present and where, according to the establishment's management, this type of situation, rarely, if ever has occurred."
I have no doubt that the responding police officers were openly carrying firearms. So the police officers who werechallenging this behavior as antisocial were simultaneously manifesting the same behavior. A humorous paradox.

If the quote's implication---that no "assertive" adult should carry firearmsin the presence of children---is true, then police should also refrain from this antisocial behavior.
 

Mike

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If VCDL or some other group organizes a visit to speak to the Staunton city council, I suggest anyone who's kids might be interested in attending the meeting let them come so speakers can point to the presence of many openly carried fireams and children in the same room.

Maybe the kids could write about the meeting for school and get some extra credit?
 

rlh2005

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Jun 16, 2006
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Spotsylvania County, Virginia, USA
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Mike wrote:
Maybe the kids could write about the meeting for school and get some extra credit?

Unfortunately, given the trains of thought of some educators, the kids probably would get docked since firearms are socially irresponsible and so distasteful.:uhoh:
 

Gray Peterson

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May 12, 2006
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DK,

Here's the issue. First, the Hiibel court stated that states had the OPTION of requiring people to give their real names to the police. Nevada had such a law, but as far as I know, Virginia does not.

Take the Kelo v. New London case. In that case, the Supreme Court stated that the states had the option to do to the Kelo family what New London was doing to them as far as the federal constitution. However, the state constitutions may have stricter protections for eminent domain.

This goes for many rights, including the right to keep and bear arms, which is specifically numerated as an individual right in most states.
 

Mr. Y

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Oct 6, 2006
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Super Secret Squirrel Bunker, Virginia, USA
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Ladies and Gentlemen,

I was prompted to review the Chief's answer to the complaint today. In parsing the response, you can see twice the Chief addresses the contextual issue of 'possessing a gun in a public place where children are present'. The clear hint being not to do it in histown.

Notice that when he says everyone was free to leave, he doesn't address the issue of the demand for ID, and subsequent taking of ourID's.

I'm still reviewing this response for it's content and will update the rkba page.
 

SicSemperTyrannis

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Jun 29, 2006
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Henrico County ,
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On packing.org you can find a link to a poll in the local newspaper. Before you find the poll (hidden in the bottom right corner) you will see a major story on the Staunton meeting last night, including a picture of Mike open-carrying while addressing the council. Additionally, there are interesting conversations going on in a discussion thread attached to the article (you do have to register first to post, but not to view them, and registering only takes 30 seconds).
 
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