Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
I know that some people on here have been open carrying in Washington in general, outside of Seattle, which is fine. However, due to an email which I've confirmed to be from a Seattle Police officer, I am highly recommending that if you have any desire to open carry in Seattle, especially downtown, to please not do so at this time.
Why? Well, here is the body of the email that I received:
One in particular thought it was illegal. I pointed out that the law is actually vague. It prohibits it only if carrying it (not exact words) if it is done in a manner that causes alarm to the general citizenry.
So open carry in podunk town E. Wa. would not likely scare someone and would therefore be legal.
Open carry in downtown Seattle would scare the bejesus out of folks, probably end with a SWAT callout, and would definitely be charged by the prosecutor.
Fair? No. The law? Yes. And your jury would be made up of Seattlites.
That's the way I read the law anyway.
I'm no lawyer.
At the very least, the officer here admits that he is not a lawyer, and makes some interesting statements. The officer is flat out wrong on the law as stated, however my biggest concern here is the idea of a "SWAT callout".
As we well know, SWAT teams across this country, in call outs, have made some pretty horrific mistakes, including raiding wrong houses, shooting people who don't "cooperate", etc.
Encounters with law enforcement officers are one thing, encounters with a militarized police force who's rules of engagement is to "take down" a person that they target by any means neccesary is quite another thing entirely. I don't think any of us want to leave behind a family who has to bury us or cremate us. Granted, any bad shoot from a SWAT team to a person open carrying would result in massive liability, AFTER you've been shot and possibly killed. However, the point being is: I don't want to leave this world just yet due to the mind numbing stupidity of SOME of the law enforcement officers in this state who absolutely cannot handle the idea of someone who is just as "openly armed" as they are, and I'm sure this is a common opinion.
This does not mean that we're giving up. Far from it. 44Brent and I were not planning on going into Seattle anyway until we further up our paper trail on training bulletins. We intend to make sure that Seattle is entirely cut off and surrounded by cities & counties that have educated their officers on open carry. As folks here may know, the KCSO is based in Seattle, and there's a lot of communication back and forth between the two departments.
At this very moment, we have several irons in the fire on this situation.
Thus far, we only have Federal Way's training bulletin. However, things are rolling to where we will hopefully have training bulletins from three of the largest cities in the state soon. Let's also keep in mind (from other forum posters and my own personal discussions) that the King County Sheriffs also believe that open carry was legal. This was due to a bulletin sent out in a 1997 bulletin on the "case and carry" gun law being repealed, however it would appear that a few officers need some refreshers, despite many of the KCSO deputies that I have asked during my times at the courthouse (for other work) told me that open carry is legal.
As for Olympia, I am asking for a hold on open carry in Olympia due to information gathered from a forum post on The High Road. I will be making contact with Olympia PD on this issue personally and asking the usual "training bulletin" questions. With any luck, I should have something within a few weeks, because the process with them hasn't started.
I will be posting another thread, asking for assistance with another issue.
I know that some people on here have been open carrying in Washington in general, outside of Seattle, which is fine. However, due to an email which I've confirmed to be from a Seattle Police officer, I am highly recommending that if you have any desire to open carry in Seattle, especially downtown, to please not do so at this time.
Why? Well, here is the body of the email that I received:
One in particular thought it was illegal. I pointed out that the law is actually vague. It prohibits it only if carrying it (not exact words) if it is done in a manner that causes alarm to the general citizenry.
So open carry in podunk town E. Wa. would not likely scare someone and would therefore be legal.
Open carry in downtown Seattle would scare the bejesus out of folks, probably end with a SWAT callout, and would definitely be charged by the prosecutor.
Fair? No. The law? Yes. And your jury would be made up of Seattlites.
That's the way I read the law anyway.
I'm no lawyer.
At the very least, the officer here admits that he is not a lawyer, and makes some interesting statements. The officer is flat out wrong on the law as stated, however my biggest concern here is the idea of a "SWAT callout".
As we well know, SWAT teams across this country, in call outs, have made some pretty horrific mistakes, including raiding wrong houses, shooting people who don't "cooperate", etc.
Encounters with law enforcement officers are one thing, encounters with a militarized police force who's rules of engagement is to "take down" a person that they target by any means neccesary is quite another thing entirely. I don't think any of us want to leave behind a family who has to bury us or cremate us. Granted, any bad shoot from a SWAT team to a person open carrying would result in massive liability, AFTER you've been shot and possibly killed. However, the point being is: I don't want to leave this world just yet due to the mind numbing stupidity of SOME of the law enforcement officers in this state who absolutely cannot handle the idea of someone who is just as "openly armed" as they are, and I'm sure this is a common opinion.
This does not mean that we're giving up. Far from it. 44Brent and I were not planning on going into Seattle anyway until we further up our paper trail on training bulletins. We intend to make sure that Seattle is entirely cut off and surrounded by cities & counties that have educated their officers on open carry. As folks here may know, the KCSO is based in Seattle, and there's a lot of communication back and forth between the two departments.
At this very moment, we have several irons in the fire on this situation.
Thus far, we only have Federal Way's training bulletin. However, things are rolling to where we will hopefully have training bulletins from three of the largest cities in the state soon. Let's also keep in mind (from other forum posters and my own personal discussions) that the King County Sheriffs also believe that open carry was legal. This was due to a bulletin sent out in a 1997 bulletin on the "case and carry" gun law being repealed, however it would appear that a few officers need some refreshers, despite many of the KCSO deputies that I have asked during my times at the courthouse (for other work) told me that open carry is legal.
As for Olympia, I am asking for a hold on open carry in Olympia due to information gathered from a forum post on The High Road. I will be making contact with Olympia PD on this issue personally and asking the usual "training bulletin" questions. With any luck, I should have something within a few weeks, because the process with them hasn't started.
I will be posting another thread, asking for assistance with another issue.