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Thread: open carry in the city of kent

  1. #1
    Regular Member fatalhubris's Avatar
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    Okey dokey then,

    If anyone on here lives or has carried openly in the city of Kent feel free to speak up and share with the rest of the class. I have refrained form doing so out of simple ignorance and a misguided belief that it was in fact illegal to do so. I am looking for commentary and or advice in dealing with the eventuality that if I do chose to exercise my right to do so. I will be potentially dealing with Kent Pd an organization that has a Gestapo reputation at best. I have as you can see taken the time to look up Kent city ordnances pertaining to this. (Just a snide little aside here, looks like ill be pulling out my tape measure) any advice is welcome

    9.02.350 Possession of firearms or dangerous weapons at Kent Commons – Unlawful.

    A.Subject to the exceptions set forth in subsections (B) and (C) of this section, it shall be unlawful for any person to possess a firearm; a dagger, sword, or knife with a blade in excess of three (3) inches; or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, inside of the premises known as the Kent Commons located at 525 North Fourth Avenue in the city of Kent.

    B.The prohibition to possession of a firearm shall not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 or a person exempted from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060.

    C.This section shall not apply during shows, demonstrations, or lectures involving the exhibition of firearms or other weapons.

    D.For the purposes of this section, firearm means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.

    E.This section shall only apply to those areas of the Kent Commons that are within the Kent Commons building or that are contained to an area adjacent to the building by a temporary barrier during use for an event hosted by the Kent Commons.

    F.A person who violates this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

    (Ord. No. 3621, §2, 10-1-02)

  2. #2
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    Local ordinances don't mean diddly.

    RCW 9.41.290
    State preemption

    The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

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    Fatal - you should lead the charge to make Kent repeal their preempted ordiance - press publicity would be good too, even if they refuse to repeal!

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    I need to make contact with Kent PD soon. Thank you for reminding me, fatal.

  5. #5
    Regular Member fatalhubris's Avatar
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    Shesh. See what happens when I stop paying attention,



    First off thanks Brent I’ve known that federal superseded state and state supersedes local ECT. All that but I wasn’t sure in this instance. I haven’t really been caring openly at this point, mostly due to the rain so its kind moot issue at this point.



    Mike to be blunt I haven’t a clue as to how to go about that more to the point I think Lonnie would be a better choice in most respects ( hah I spelled it right nener) since he is far more politically correct than ill ever be.





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    fatalhubris wrote:
    Mike to be blunt I haven’t a clue as to how to go about that more to the point I think Lonnie would be a better choice in most respects ( hah I spelled it right nener) since he is far more politically correct than ill ever be.
    Easy - go to your city council and demand they repeal the preempted ordiance.

    Even if they don't repeal it, everybody will be educated that the ordiance is not enforceable.

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    44Brent wrote:
    Local ordinances don't mean diddly.

    RCW 9.41.290
    State preemption

    The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.
    I just read this. Sorry for the lateness of this but in this instance Kent does have the authority to prohibit this except that it does not apply to people with a CC permit. Section 2(b) of 9.41.300 is the authority that allows this municipal code.

    (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

    (a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and

    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    (ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Joeroket, that only applies in a Stadium or a Convention Center. Does the Kent Commons foot that bill?

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    I think they do but I can find out for sure. I have a friend that works as dispatcher for the city of Kent. I sent a message asking her if they consider it a convention center.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    So after doing a little digging into the Kent Commons it appears that, by definition, it falls under the category of a convention center. They refer to it as a public recreational facility and it is absolutely operated by the city of Kent. IMHO I would have to think that the local ordinance is completely legal.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  11. #11
    Regular Member fatalhubris's Avatar
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    The Kent Commons is a public recreational facility that offers a wide variety of physical and cultural activities. It also provides space for social gatherings such as receptions, community events and meetings.
    No membership fees or monthly dues are required to enjoy this public facility.
    (Note I got that from the website) http://www.ci.kent.wa.us/kentcommons/index.asp
    The definition of a convention center:

    a large civic building or group of buildings designed for conventions, industrial shows, and the like, having large unobstructed exhibit areas and often including conference rooms, hotel accommodations, restaurants, and other facilities.



    Got most of this from the Kent Commons site is dictionary.com.

    Dispatchers are not attorneys or law enforcement.

  12. #12
    Regular Member fatalhubris's Avatar
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    The Kent Commons is a public recreational facility that offers a wide variety of physical and cultural activities. It also provides space for social gatherings such as receptions, community events and meetings.
    No membership fees or monthly dues are required to enjoy this public facility.
    (Note I got that from the website) http://www.ci.kent.wa.us/kentcommons/index.asp
    The definition of a convention center:

    a large civic building or group of buildings designed for conventions, industrial shows, and the like, having large unobstructed exhibit areas and often including conference rooms, hotel accommodations, restaurants, and other facilities.



    Got most of this from the Kent Commons site is dictionary.com.

    Dispatchers are not attorneys or law enforcement.

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    fatalhubris wrote:
    The Kent Commons is a public recreational facility that offers a wide variety of physical and cultural activities. It also provides space for social gatherings such as receptions, community events and meetings.
    No membership fees or monthly dues are required to enjoy this public facility.
    (Note I got that from the website) http://www.ci.kent.wa.us/kentcommons/index.asp
    The definition of a convention center:

    a large civic building or group of buildings designed for conventions, industrial shows, and the like, having large unobstructed exhibit areas and often including conference rooms, hotel accommodations, restaurants, and other facilities.



    Got most of this from the Kent Commons site is dictionary.com.

    Dispatchers are not attorneys or law enforcement.
    I know that dispatchers are not attorneys or law enforcment. I am having her ask at the city level. My point is that even though they call it a recreational facility it does appear to fall under the definition of a convention center based on the usage of it thus appearing to be under thier authority to enact local ordinances to prohibit firearms. I do admit I have never been there so I do not know if it is a single building large enough to fall within the scope of the definition or a grouping of buildings.

    You are in Kent. Can you enlighten me as to the make up of the Commons?
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  14. #14
    Regular Member fatalhubris's Avatar
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    Yikes I’m slacking….



    Sorry I haven’t gotten back to this any sooner. I have never personally entered the Kent commons facility. From the exterior it appears to be several smaller buildings. I can’t be 100% certain of this as fact. Because I am almost always carrying without fail I have never set foot on the facility grounds. I tend to avoid places where my arms are unwelcome. Hell I don’t even bother with bars much any more. One other amusing detail about the commons it is directly adjacent to the RJC and court house. so that could put potentially all kinds of spin on the issue.

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    Well I would have to say that is does fall under the definition of convention center. Thier events schedule shows that it has the ability to host multiple shows on the same day. With that info I would be inclined to say that Kent is falling the scope of the state law.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  16. #16
    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    How about Kent Station?(Open air shopping center similar toUniversity Village or Redmond Town Center) Anyone know the rules there or have any problems?

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    trevorthebusdriver wrote:
    How about Kent Station?(Open air shopping center similar toUniversity Village or Redmond Town Center) Anyone know the rules there or have any problems?
    I've OC'd there plenty of times over the last year or so when there is usualy 2-3 Police cars there they've never said a word although about a month ago a Cop had a look of total disbelief and followed me until I got on my bus.

    On a side note I seen Cops "trespass" people for smoking cigarettes at the Kent PnR.

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    Ravenhawk wrote:
    trevorthebusdriver wrote:
    How about Kent Station?(Open air shopping center similar toUniversity Village or Redmond Town Center) Anyone know the rules there or have any problems?
    I've OD'd there plenty of times over the last year or so when there is usualy 2-3 Police cars there they've never said a word although about a month ago a Cop had a look of total disbelief and followed me until I got on my bus.

    On a side note I seen Cops "trespass" people for smoking cigarettes at the Kent PnR.
    Smoking is illegal in the Kent Commons and you can be trespassed for breaking the law. However, OC at least with a CPL( if the Commons actually qualifies as a covention center)is legal and they can't trespass you for being legal.

  19. #19
    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Guys, I'm already working on it. See my post "YAY, my first LEO encounterhttp://http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/14753.html

    I'm already in contact with Randy Loun, and we're making up a letter to send Kent PD. It will be to Randy on Monday, and should be to the PD by Wednesday.
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    The Kent commons is pretty small, is there is capacity or size requirement to be considered a convention center?

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    Spaceman Spiff wrote:
    The Kent commons is pretty small, is there is capacity or size requirement to be considered a convention center?
    Nothing I have ever read about a convention center is size limiting. It mainly has to do with the architecture and how it is used.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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