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Thread: Kicked out all over the darn place...

  1. #1
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    Got kicked out of South Hills Village (just outside of Upper St Clair, PA) by a friendly-enough plain-clothes mall security guy. Interestingly enough he asked if I was a police officer (standard introduction of the ignorant), then told me that the mall had a "no firearms" policy. Now I *do* make a habit of poring over the code of conduct signs that are posted at malls, and I was sure that South Hills' sign didn't have any wording concerning firearms, but he told me there was.

    I was in the middle of trying to find something at the lost and found and told him to give me a couple more minutes while the nice lady looked up in her book whether my item had been found. He walked away from me and barked into his walkie-talkie "Code 1, blah blah". A few seconds later a couple unarmed uniformed security guards showed up. Now, if I *was* a threat with my Walther P99 40 S&W with-which-I-can-drill-a-six-inch-pattern-rapid-fire-at-20-yards I'm not exactly sure what these guys hoped to achieve. Perhaps the exercise was to assure they'd all bleed in a confined area to save the janitors undue exertion.

    I digress.

    The uniformed guards were in an absolute panic. I had just been told by the lady (who, by the way, was cool as a spring cucumber) that my item hadn't been turned in and I waltzed over to the shaky group of "security" and told them I was on my way out. After a collective "phew" from the uniformed folks I was given a card that had the mall's code of conduct. Sure enough firearms was on the card.

    BUT, the funny thing was, as I left the mall and reread the code of conduct posted thereon there was no mention of firearms. So the code of conduct on the wall was different from the card they were handing out.

    Fast forward to two days later. I was going in to the Barnes and Noble that's semi-attached to the mall (hey, if they're not posting they'll have to kick me out manually every time--sorry) I caught out of the corner of my eye one of the security jeeps that circle round the parking lots.

    "Soybeans" I thought as I picked up the pace into the store--not wishing a confrontation outside because I was in a hurry. He blasted his horn at me while I walked into the store. Once inside the fella found me in the store in no time and asked if I was a police officer (see above). I said "no" and he asked to see my permit. Now having been accosted just a couple days earlier by some of his compatriots I told him I didn't need a permit to open carry, and that I wasn't going to show my permit. He then asked for my id, which I refused to give to him. He told me he was also a police officer and I replied "then why did you chase me into this store? open carry of a firearm is legal in PA". Silence (sound of wind, picture a tumbleweed). He left and said "just wanted to make sure that you were ok".

    Alright.

    After a couple minutes two employees from the B&N came up to me and told me to leave the firearm in the car or leave the store because "customers" were getting upset. Now what's funny about that is that a couple said to me "nice replacement for knowing the law" once the security guy left and we got talking. Also an elderly gentleman came up to the three of us and starting talking too. The old fellow had seen me walking (briskly) into the store with the security guard honking like a retarded goose. All of the three of us laughed at the security guard and talked about "how everyone should carry open like that". So I'm still unclear on what "customers" were unhinged about me carrying. I've done it many times *at that bookstore* and not had a customer say anything about it.

    I'm starting to get the impression that the police and security guards aren't necessarily our friends. Besides, if everyone was packing the police would become irrelevant now, wouldn't they?

    I'm really going to get going more on that PCDL.

  2. #2
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    Yup, I think PA needs a PCDL - young educated folks ready to hit the Internet hard and surge from one part of PA to the other in defense of carry rights generally - concealed and open.

    make sure you follow up and complain to mall management that their guards don;t know what they are doing and that you were unable to find their no firearms policy posted publicly, so it's not realistic to expect anybody to follow secret rules.

  3. #3
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    critter wrote:
    Interestingly enough he asked if I was a police officer (standard introduction of the ignorant), then told me that the mall had a "no firearms" policy.
    Actually, he wanted to know because if you are a cop then the rules don't apply. In fact the card I got from mall security, as I was being told to leave, prohibited all weapons "except for leo's".

  4. #4
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    Might take some time, but get the names and addresses of all the stores within the mall. Write them a letter explaining how you, as a law-abiding citizen of the Commonwealth,will not be shopping at their establishments any more due to Mall Management's rent-a-cops prohibiting you from exercising your civil rights, with an info copy to Mall Management.

    Point out that the mall's discrimination is being posted on the internet.

    Go on the offensive!

  5. #5
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    Mike wrote:
    Yup, I think PA needs a PCDL - young educated folks ready to hit the Internet hard and surge from one part of PA to the other in defense of carry rights generally - concealed and open.

    How would one go about starting up something like this. E-mail me on this.

  6. #6
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    smokeeater wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Yup, I think PA needs a PCDL - young educated folks ready to hit the Internet hard and surge from one part of PA to the other in defense of carry rights generally - concealed and open.

    How would one go about starting up something like this. E-mail me on this.
    If you are on VCDL's VA-ALERT you will see how they operate - get some folks together who are legally, politically, and Internet savvy, and get started.

    TCDL started that way recently.

  7. #7
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    Civics class:
    it occured, once, during 8th grade. Civics class, that is...

    At no time was I told upholding my rights was my civic duty...
    Civics class is obviously the FIRST and BEST place to start. We have a law or absence thereof, combined with case law, that says "open carry is alright", and people are obviously troubled by that fact.

    The same government that precipitates these laws runs the public schooling that most children attend. Why would it be against their best interests to defuse public fear AND improve personal citizens' self-determination by empowering them to use and protect their rights, as well as know the law?

    (Oh yeah...I forgot...knowledge is power, lolz)

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