• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Open Carry In PA? Yes or NO?

FreeorDie

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
91
Location
America, ,
imported post

Mike wrote:
Why are people still asking the police to give legal advice?


Actually Mike, the conversation was about open carrying in PA (Reading in particular). Noone was aking the COP any legal advice. The point that was being made on the post above is basically that the folks in Reading SHOULD open carry, you would probably see a DRAMATIC drop in crime! BUT, also to know that the crooked cops, the few that are there, mostly rookies, will probably arrest you. Just to be forwarned.
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

Bringing up the subject of OC to LEOs is like asking for advice on that topic. There is nothing to be fore-warned about - the LEOs should be fore-warned enough by the PA Suprem Courtopinion declaring OC legal without permit, at http://www.courts.state.pa.us/opposting/supreme/opinions/0497pdf/k00jiz95.pdf:

SNIP

"Except in Philadelphia, firearms may be carried openly without a license. See Ortiz v. Commonwealth, ___ Pa. ___, ___, 681 A.2d 152, 155 (1996) (only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying a firearm whether it is unconcealed or concealed; in other parts of the Commonwealth, unconcealed firearms do not require a license)."



We need folks to start OCing regularly in Reading then and get in the news to help clarify to all concerned.
 

FreeorDie

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
91
Location
America, ,
imported post

You are one hundred percent correct!

Mike, you might enjoy the letter written to the news reporter that was there from a Citizen.

____________________________________________________________________

Greetings Melissa,
MelissaBatulis@wfmz.com

You did a fine job on your reporting of the meeting on Tuesday! It is REALLY appreciated by the MANY LAWFUL firearms owner in the Reading area when the new is unbiased. Both sides were left to be heard. McMahon is a slick coward of a politician, an un-American and should be thrown out of his office as should be Tom Caltigerone.
He, McMahon intentionally left the meeting go on until the LAST seven minutes so that the Citizens of Reading had no time to effectively address the issues. Melissa, as a reporter, it is your duty to report the facts! You showed that your character is such that you intend on doing just that. Below I share some facts with you in hopes that you will report it to the Reading community. America is a Constitutional Republic, NOT a Democracy! The passing of UN-Constitutional Draconian Hitler style laws as was being suggested on Tuesday will NOT be tolerated by the informed firearms owning Citizen in Reading or nationwide for that matter. The American people are beginning to wake from there sleep to see these lies coming!
Have you read the united States of America or even the Pennsylvania Constitution pertaining to the right of the Citizen lately?
http://www.guncite.com/journals/dowdesp.html this is right on target!

As you were informed Open carry (self defense) is lawful in Pennsylvania.

See the following court cases:

Sayres v. Commonwealth, Self-defense right protected, 88 Pa. 291 (1879)
Commonwealth v. Hawkins, 692 A.2d 1068, n.4 (“In all parts of Pennsylvania, persons who are licensed may carry concealed firearms. 18 Pa.C.S. § 6108. Except in Philadelphia, firearms may be carried openly without a license. See Ortiz v. Commonwealth, 545 Pa. 279, 283, 681 A.2d 152, 155 (1996) (only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying a firearm whether it is unconcealed or concealed; in other parts of the Commonwealth, unconcealed firearms do not require a license)”).

Ortiz v. Commonwealth, 545 Pa. 279; 681 A.2d 152 (1996) (agreeing with appellant’s citation of the fact that "...in Philadelphia County, the legislature requires that a person must be licensed to carry weapons openly and not concealed from sight, whereas in all other counties of Pennsylvania, weapons may be carried openly without a license [, but holding that appellant’s argument that this fact then exempts Philadelphia from state preemption statute] is plainly without merit” [emphasis added]”).

When we were discussing the forum, you seemed VERY interested in hearing both perspectives. Hopefully this was not a show.

Melissa, you also seemed interested in learning how to be skilled at arms, so you too can handle a firearm safely. As a reporter, you can go to http://www.frontsight.com/news.asp and if you get in contact with the founder Ignatius Piazza, they will be glad to have you come to training specifically for those in the media. Your views that may be against firearms will likely change! The crime in Reading, Pennsylvania would DRASTICALLY drop if the Citizens were educated that a firearm in the hands of a trained citizen is good for the community and a BIG help for Law Enforcement. Hopefully you will dig deeper for the facts and see that an armed society is a polite society!

If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.

-- James Madison The Federalist No. 51, at 349 (James Madison) (Jacob B. Cook ed., 1961).
 

FreeorDie

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
91
Location
America, ,
imported post

Mike wrote:
FreeorDie wrote:
Mike, you might enjoy the letter written to the news reporter that was there from a Citizen.

____________________________________________________________________

Greetings Melissa,
MelissaBatulis@wfmz.com

You did a fine job on your reporting of the meeting on Tuesday!
What is the link to this news report?
WFMZ.com is a TV news station in the local and surrounding Reading, PA area.
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

FreeorDie wrote:
Mike wrote:
What is the link to this news report?
WFMZ.com is a TV news station in the local and surrounding Reading, PA area.

I know - I asked you for the link to the story - OK, I went and found it myself - here it is: http://wfmz.com/view/?id=58244

All - please post links to articles and authorities when posting on this board, thanks.
 

FreeorDie

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
91
Location
America, ,
imported post

Mike wrote:
FreeorDie wrote:
Mike wrote:
What is the link to this news report?
WFMZ.com is a TV news station in the local and surrounding Reading, PA area.

I know - I asked you for the link to the story - OK, I went and found it myself - here it is: http://wfmz.com/view/?id=58244

All - please post links to articles and authorities when posting on this board, thanks.

Ok, I would of gladly given you the link if I had it:exclaim: ;) Good work finding it Mike, thanks!
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

Ok, I would of gladly given you the link if I had it:exclaim: ;) Good work finding it Mike, thanks!
I did not mean to be a meanie - these links can be found by doing a qucik search for the word gun on the news org's web site and I encourage everybody to do this bit of work if you decide to post, thanks.
 

FreeorDie

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
91
Location
America, ,
imported post

Mike wrote:
Ok, I would of gladly given you the link if I had it:exclaim: ;) Good work finding it Mike, thanks!
I did not mean to be a meanie - these links can be found by doing a qucik search for the word gun on the news org's web site and I encourage everybody to do this bit of work if you decide to post, thanks.

I am such an idiot!!! :banghead: I should have known better :cuss:!!! I DO NOT DESERVE to be here anymore!


LOL JUST kidding:arrow: :lol:
 

tes151

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
14
Location
York, Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

Why would anyone ask a PA sherrif for legal advice. In PA the only thing sherrifs deputies do is guard courthouses, transport prisoners, and serve warrants. We don't even slow down for them on the street. They are only about a half step higher than a rent a cop. If your not in a courthouse, pay no attention to them.
 

vermeire

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
11
Location
, ,
imported post

FreeorDie wrote:
what is the on foot all about?

So if a Man/Woman is riding a bicycle while open carrying with no permit, they can get arrested in PA?
You would have to look at how vehicle laws apply to a bicycle to come up with a good approximation. I have heard several times that you CAN recieve a DUI while on a bicycle. I have no statute nor have I saught legal advise concerning such, but I do know that a bicycle is subject to all traffic regulations relating to speed, signalling, stopping, and such. My best guess would be open carry on a bicycle requires a permit. IANAL and know of no such cases. I also think it would be a rare LEO that would stop someone for such practice. IMO, the same LEO would stop you for open carry regardless of mode of transportation. Just my thoughts on the subject.
 

Pa. Patriot

State Researcher
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
1,441
Location
Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

vermeire wrote:
You would have to look at how vehicle laws apply to a bicycle to come up with a good approximation. I have heard several times that you CAN recieve a DUI while on a bicycle. I have no statute nor have I saught legal advise concerning such, but I do know that a bicycle is subject to all traffic regulations relating to speed, signalling, stopping, and such. My best guess would be open carry on a bicycle requires a permit. IANAL and know of no such cases. I also think it would be a rare LEO that would stop someone for such practice. IMO, the same LEO would stop you for open carry regardless of mode of transportation. Just my thoughts on the subject.
In the uniform firearms act the vehicle is always referenced as: "...in any vehicle" Or "In a vehicle" or "motor vehicle"

1) How do you get "in" a bicycle?

2) A bicycle is definately not a motor vehicle.

To me it seems very clear the law applies only to "motor" vehicles with a passeger compartment.
 

Steve in PA

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
158
Location
Somewhere in PA
imported post

tes151 wrote:
Why would anyone ask a PA sherrif for legal advice. In PA the only thing sherrifs deputies do is guard courthouses, transport prisoners, and serve warrants. We don't even slow down for them on the street. They are only about a half step higher than a rent a cop. If your not in a courthouse, pay no attention to them.
Well, you may want to change your ways. If the sheriff's deputies have taken the PA vehicle code they CAN pull you over.
 

Lab_Lover

New member
Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
1
Location
McKeesport ( Liberty Borough), Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

vermeire wrote:
You would have to look at how vehicle laws apply to a bicycle to come up with a good approximation. I have heard several times that you CAN recieve a DUI while on a bicycle. I have no statute nor have I saught legal advise concerning such, but I do know that a bicycle is subject to all traffic regulations relating to speed, signalling, stopping, and such. My best guess would be open carry on a bicycle requires a permit. IANAL and know of no such cases. I also think it would be a rare LEO that would stop someone for such practice. IMO, the same LEO would stop you for open carry regardless of mode of transportation. Just my thoughts on the subject.


In the uniform firearms act the vehicle is always referenced as: "...in any vehicle" Or "In a vehicle" or "motor vehicle"

1) How do you get "in" a bicycle?

2) A bicycle is definately not a motor vehicle.

To me it seems very clear the law applies only to "motor" vehicles with a passeger compartment.





Bicycles have fallen under the vehicle code in PA for some time now. So does a horse, and horse and wagon.

Don't ask for the source, I don't know. But I have seen in the newspapers of DUI's being issued for both.

Also traffic violations.
 

Pa. Patriot

State Researcher
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
1,441
Location
Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

Lab_Lover wrote:
Bicycles have fallen under the vehicle code in PA for some time now. So does a horse, and horse and wagon.

Don't ask for the source, I don't know. But I have seen in the newspapers of DUI's being issued for both.

Also traffic violations.

I've heard this too.

I guess the kicker is IF the vehicle codes and title 18 use the same definitions
 

Steve in PA

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
158
Location
Somewhere in PA
imported post

Yes, under the vehicle code a bicycle is considered a vehicle and you can be arrested for DUI on a bike...........or a horse.

As for carrying on a bike, I don't think you would have a problem.
 

FreeorDie

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
91
Location
America, ,
imported post

What does the below mean, that if other cities in PA grow to a million, that it would make it illegal to open carry?


spacer.gif
For general information on each policy, click the heading for that policy. Please note that many firearm-related laws have exceptions for military and law enforcement personnel.
Open Carrying/Exposed Firearms
18 Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes Annotated § 6108 prohibits carrying a firearm, rifle or shotgun "at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class" (cities with a population of one million or more, per 53 Pa. Stat. Ann. § 101) unless the person is licensed to carry a firearm (18 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 6109) or, as discussed below, is exempt under section 6106.
Pennsylvania prohibits the possession of firearms in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school. 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 912. The state also prohibits any person from knowingly possessing a firearm in a court facility or knowingly causing a firearm to be present in a court facility. Section 913(1).
The state prohibits hunting with a firearm in a "safety zone," defined as an area within 150 yards of "any attached or detached playground of any school, nursery school or day-care center." 34 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 2505(a), (c).
53 Pennsylvania Statutes Annotated § 16620 requires those "unlawfully, riotously and tumultuously assembled together" to disperse when law enforcement so directs. If 12 or more persons remain after being asked to disperse they are liable for a misdemeanor. Anyone so remaining who also had possession of a firearm, whether discharged or not, "shall be deemed guilty of an intention to riot . . . ." Id.
State regulations also prohibit firearms and ammunition in: 1) child day care centers (55 Pa. Code § 3270.79); 2) group child day care homes located in buildings that are not residences (55 Pa. Code § 3280.79(a)); 3) child residential and day treatment facilities (55 Pa. Code § 3800.101); and 4) community homes for individuals with mental retardation (55 Pa. Code § 6400.86).
 

Skuggi

Regular Member
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
82
Location
McKees Rocks PA, ,
imported post

it would make it illegal to carry in that city yes. Now depending on the cities lean, it could just make it's own law to exempt it from the state law, like philly does all the time.
 
Top