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Thread: Open Carry on front page of Richmond Times-Dispatch today

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    I'm shocked no one else beat me to this... on the front page of today's Richmond Times-Dispatch Metro section, there is a highlighted section on the Museum of Fine Arts and open carry. It includes quotes from the museum spokeswoman - noting that patrons with openly carried guns will be asked to return them to the car, but will still be allowed admittance if they refuse. The only possibly inaccurate part notes that the museum recently learned that Virginia is "one of the few states that allow guns worn openly". I know elsewhere on this forum it says 44 states allow some form of open carry, so perhaps they would disagree (even thoughanyone over 18 not otherwise precluded can open carry here in Virginia - unlicensed- almost everywhere, including public meetings and facilities, libraries, banks, public museums, etc - which is certainly not true in the overwhelming majority of those 44 states, so possibly that is what she meant (or even said) and the reporter messed it up from there?).


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    http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=114919172 1023

    Below, please find a verbatim copy and paste from www.packing.org:

    "They really got this wrong...
    There were two of us, but I was carrying concealed so they didn't pay attention to me, of course. Dennis O'Connor was carrying openly. They didn't ask him to put his gun in his car, I don't recall him being asked to leave his gun behind for the benefit of the guests at the museum (what were Dennis and I, chopped liver?), and far more than a few states allow open carry.

    The female guard lost it when Dennis refused to show a CHP while open carrying and she called in a '10-33' Being an ex-deputy, I knew what that was. I turned to her and said, "Ma'm, you DO NOT have an emergency here."

    We had been in that museum for 2.5 hours with lots of people around us - no problem other than one unarmed security guard that wanted to show her authority.

    As it turned out this whole thing happened on our way out of the door, so we just left to go get lunch.

    In a way I wish we had stayed to educate the guards on the law, but it sounds like they finally got it figure out according to that article.

    Philip Van Cleave, President, VCDL"

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    Isn't that some form of intimidation or something? It is almost like they areputting up a human "no guns allowed" sign, which is against Virginia law for them to do in a public building.

    Also,can you provide a direct link to Mr. Van Cleave's post at packing.org? I couldn't find it.

    Thanks

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    VApatriot wrote:
    Also,can you provide a direct link to Mr. Van Cleave's post at packing.org? I couldn't find it.

    Thanks
    The thread is at:
    http://www.packing.org/community/whe...listview/18360
    Van Cleave's post is about half way down the page.

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    My roommate and I are going to be making a trip to the museum tomorrow, and I'll be OC'ing with my thigh rig. Haven't gone in a while, and I figure it's such an opportune time.

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    I work for the security company (thankfully in a differentdivision) that supplies guards for them. The guardsare not what you would call top of the line. I and one other armed officer (both in street clothes) were there about a year ago to take a DCJS recert. class. The "supervisor" who was also the "instructor" had no clue about Va firearm laws and almost had a stroke when I took my jacket off. By the time we were finished, they were well informed about legal carry of arms. I guess I will have to take another trip up there to re-educate they

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    "We have since learned, upon doing some research, that Virginia is one of the "few" states in the United States that allow guns to be worn in public," she said.

    Sounds like a "letter to the editor" is in order.

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    Well I OC'd at the museum today. I went into the fabergé exhibit, and I could tell that I caught the attention of a guard. She proceeded to talk on her radio, and about 5 minutes later, a male guard approached me, stating that weapons were prohibited at the mueseum. I told him that they weren't, and when he asked me to leave, I said no. He then asked for my name, and I refused to give it to him. He walked away, and I didn't hear anything else from anybody during the whole visit (although I could tell the cameras were right on us at all times). Apprarently the staff has gotten savvy since the publicity.

    I think that Richmond OC'ers should all meet up there one day for a museum outing. They have some good art there, and it would be a good way to flex our rights.

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    Just curious... did he ask you to leave the museum... or did he ask you to please take your weapon to the car for the comfort of lord-knows-who and then return unarmed? I know most of us wouldn't be happy with either response, but the article in the RT-D indicates that the second possibility I mentioned is the new policy, which the guards should be following, as opposed to asking you to leave.

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    mercutio545 wrote:
    Well I OC'd at the museum today. I went into the fabergé exhibit, and I could tell that I caught the attention of a guard. She proceeded to talk on her radio, and about 5 minutes later, a male guard approached me, stating that weapons were prohibited at the mueseum. I told him that they weren't, and when he asked me to leave, I said no. He then asked for my name, and I refused to give it to him. He walked away, and I didn't hear anything else from anybody during the whole visit (although I could tell the cameras were right on us at all times). Apprarently the staff has gotten savvy since the publicity.

    I think that Richmond OC'ers should all meet up there one day for a museum outing. They have some good art there, and it would be a good way to flex our rights.
    That sounds like harrassment to me. Is there anything that can be done?

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    Guys - I spoke the spokes-lady today - she misinterpretted "gold star" for "open carry allowed."

    I urged her to drop her rule for a variety of reasons, and also called the reporter to let him know that the majority state rule in the US is that open carry is allowed in public.

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    I suppose you think it's funny to make people feel bad. How would you feel if a group of random armed people came into your child's elementary school just to prove they had some kind of power over your child's life? Museums are used as learning tools for thousands of children, do you think their parents feel safe when a bunch of total strangers showing off guns are walking around them? Creating a hostile environment of protest around our children is disgusting and wrong. Move you problems somewhere else!!

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    Concerned wrote:
    How would you feel if a group of random armed people came into your child's elementary school just to prove they had some kind of power over your child's life?
    How would I feel? A lot more secure, that's how.

    Take it elsewhere, troll.

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    Concerned wrote:
    I suppose you think it's funny to make people feel bad. How would you feel if a group of random armed people came into your child's elementary school just to prove they had some kind of power over your child's life? Museums are used as learning tools for thousands of children, do you think their parents feel safe when a bunch of total strangers showing off guns are walking around them? Creating a hostile environment of protest around our children is disgusting and wrong. Move you problems somewhere else!!
    If the sight of guns around children makes you uncomfortable, might I suggest that you move to England, Australia, or Canada? The only guns you are likely to see there are ones pointed at you by a criminal who is getting ready to take your child away from you, or worse - and there will be little that you can do to stop them. Go away, troll.

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    ScottNH wrote:
    Concerned wrote:
    How would you feel if a group of random armed people came into your child's elementary school just to prove they had some kind of power over your child's life?
    How would I feel? A lot more secure, that's how.

    Take it elsewhere, troll.
    These trolls rarely post more than once. But it is always a good idea to ask them one question, one that few will ever want to answer:


    Only possible answers are Yes or No - yes it is that simple, even if you do not want to believe it. Do you think that a law will keep a criminal from using a weapon?


    They don't think past the fact that people are breaking the law, what is one more? People want to live without fear. The above person wants to believe that the no weapon signs will keep them safe. Because they do not have the desire to protect their family and themselves, they believe no one should. I guess they do not associate the fact that murder, rape, and assault are illegal already. They do not make the next step that the signs and laws did nothing to stop that. Just look at the news. People are breaking the law everyday; some people do not want to be the 1.75 out of a thousand that is raped, assaulted, robbed, or murdered. I hate that stat, 1.75 - do you want to be that person? How does the 1.75 feel about the low chance of something happening? I bet they think that 1.75 is too high.


    It is easy to blame something besides the person and that is what they do, they blame the gun. It is easy for them to do. If they can get rid of the guns, they will feel "safe" because a person would not do something like this.


    I was always taught to overlook fools and children, and try to educate the ignorant. When the ignorant will not face facts and accept the truth, they become fools at that point.


    And like I told a woman who was trying to make me feel guilty for having a gun around my kids. She asked/told me "Is that gun for those kids? I hope not!"
    I replied: "My gun is for my kids. I will use it to protect them. Just by carrying my gun, my kids are less of a target than [her] kids. A bad guy looking to take a child will walk on past me to someone less likely to give the bad guy trouble - like you."

    So have patience, try to educate, and the just overlook.





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    Concerned, You are misguided. Nobody is trying "to prove they had some kind of power over your child's life". Then what are they trying to do, you ask?

    They are exercising their natural born right to defend themselve's and family from somebody that would want to do them harm. What do you do to protect your children? Call the police? They might be able to solve your murder or your child's abduction after the body is found but do you think they can prevent it?

    A traffic accident can happen anywhere, anytime, that's why we wear seatbelts. Watch your local news or read the newspaper. Violent crime can happen anywhere anytime, museums included.

    I challenge you to drop your preconceived idea's of guns and gun owner's. Do a little more research and you might come to understand the real reason why people choose to carry a firearm. It has nothing to do with power or proving anything. It's personal responsibilty for their own and loved one's safety. Some people are not willing to rollover and just be a victim.


    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Well folks, I guess this board has moved to the big time if we are attracting trolls!

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    Concerned wrote:
    I suppose you think it's funny to make people feel bad. How would you feel if a group of random armed people came into your child's elementary school just to prove they had some kind of power over your child's life? Museums are used as learning tools for thousands of children, do you think their parents feel safe when a bunch of total strangers showing off guns are walking around them? Creating a hostile environment of protest around our children is disgusting and wrong. Move you problems somewhere else!!
    LMAO! TROLL ALERT

    I guess you feel better when a bunch of total strangers attack you because you are disarmed, because anotherbunch of total strangers passed a law disarming you.

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    Concerned wrote:
    I suppose you think it's funny to make people feel bad. How would you feel if a group of random armed people came into your child's elementary school just to prove they had some kind of power over your child's life? Museums are used as learning tools for thousands of children, do you think their parents feel safe when a bunch of total strangers showing off guns are walking around them? Creating a hostile environment of protest around our children is disgusting and wrong. Move you problems somewhere else!!
    Nobody here open carries to show off or to "make people feel bad." We open carry to educate, to show both normal people and criminals that many normal citizens are not willing to be victims and that we have the means to protect ourselves.

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    I don't know if I would call 'Concerned' a troll. In their mind they have a legitimate concern and came here to express it without any notable flaming. If I were to play amateur psychologist, like our guest, I think they 'feel bad' because by them being aware of 'us' carrying firearms, it makes them feel inadequate because they are not taking any responsibility for themselves or their children.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Wow, so apparently my suggestion of an art field trip didn't go too well with someone. Well "Concerned" can get over it. I didn't go to the museum to "show off my gun", I went to look at art (I was there from about 1 PM to 3 PM looking around, and I was there with my roommate and 2 VCU art majors). Yes, I went at that time because of the recent news article, but I still went to look at art. If I wanted to feel like a big man and show off, I would have walked in with my riot shotgun slung on my back, and my body armor. People need to remember that 'bad guys' aren't going to walk into an art museum for 2 hours and browse around with their gun on their side. One would think that they would much rather keep it concealed until they found a valuable piece of art, take it, THEN pull the gun out to ward off anybody trying to stop them.


    "Museums are used as learning tools for thousands of children, do you think their parents feel safe when a bunch of total strangers showing off guns are walking around them?"

    Yes, well when I was in the VCU library the other day there were a few gay men there wearing girl pants and makeup, and being very loud and disruptive. But is that against the law? No. Neither is open carry. Some people decide to be gay and flaunt about, some people decide to arm themselves and carry openly. Again, get over it.


    Oh and "Concerned", walking into a school while armed is illegal. Walking into a public museum while armed is not. You should get your facts straight before trying to analogize something like that.

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    You're missing my point. I don't have a problem with you owning a gun, I have a problem with you taking it into a place that shouldn't have any weapons in it. You say museums have crime in them, when was the last time someone was murdered in this one? Never. Why are you so afraid of being attacked anyway? Have you ever really had to defend yourself from someone trying to kill you? I've never had a problem, and I've lived in many cities. I own a knife, and I don't take it with me when I go to a museum. Seems silly.

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    I've driven a car for 44 years and never had an accident. Was it therefore a silly waste of time for me to bother with seat belts all those years? I still wear them all the time, even if I'm just driving across my neighborhood on a clear day at 25 mph. There's never been a serious accident in the 22 years I've lived in this place. Am I being foolish or "paranoid"? Am I a safety extremist? Am I "expecting trouble" or trying to impress people with my overt safety consciousness? None of the above. I recall the 1950's when men rarely used seat belts, thinking they were only for those who were timid or insecure about their driving skills. I frankly don't give a damn if anyone thinks my seat belt use is unnecessary. Likewise with my carrying a gun. In 2 years of open carry, I have only had 2 or 3 comments, and never saw any children running in terror. Most people don't even notice, and that's fine with me.

    There are no safe places, my friend. Your safety is primarily your responsibility.

    Think about that the next time you buckle up.

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    Concerned wrote:
    I don't have a problem with you owning a gun, I have a problem with you taking it into a place that shouldn't have any weapons in it.
    This classification without explanation of a museum as "a place that shouldn't have any weapons in it" is arbitrary.

    Given this arbitrary classification, one could lump in all or most public places outside a home (even public streets, parks, and places of assembly) as places where nobody should carry a gun.



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    Well if you want to consider a Zoo a Museum (National Zoo is owned by SmithSonian) there was that shooting some years ago. Apparently Richmond Museum considers a possible problem since they post guards? (Since they are unarmed, I prefer the term, uniformed canaries)

    As for the hostile protest, I've seen many hostile protests around children, by your rules, 1st Amendment shouldn't apply around children just like the second shouldn't either.

    Concerned, since you are so worried about open carry and guns, please fill free to attend next VCDL meeting or one of open carry meet ups. Bring your children as well (many others do) so they can meet all these people as well. You might find many of them are not much different then you.

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