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Thread: Need help asap

  1. #1
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    Ok tonight me and my family went to see Santa Claus 3. I was dressed very professionally and was open carrying. Here in NV you cannot get a ccw until you are 21 which is 3 months away for me. So I obey the law and open carry.

    As we were standing in the snack bar line the register lady says "I dont think you can have that here" so I politely informed her of the legalities, and funny enough one of her own employee's steps in and says "hes right, my mom carries". So she seemed like she had learned some new information and that was all.

    Well we start the movie and about 40mn into it I see 3 employees walk in and start looking around, like there gonna see a glock in a movie theater lol. So they leave after not finding me and I continue to watch the movie. My mother goes to the bathroom and they see her and tell her she and her family must leave immediately because the "manager is uncomfortable". The manager is about 20 years old and his "sidekick" is 18 at best. So my mom gets me and I go to talk to them about it. They were very rude an quite confrontational about the situation and I did my best to inform them of the legality of whatI was doing. They acted as though they were going to try and "force" me to leave because they were "afraid" of guns. (might I add if I was afraid of guns the last thing I would do is start an arguement with a man carrying one).

    So I kindly said, show me the corporate policy that prohibits guns in your building and I will gladly obide by that. I also informed them that they did not have any signs displayed against guns etc.

    So I left and called the local police station to file a complaint, I don't know what else I can do at this point. They said they had been contacted by the movie theater and told the manager it was fine to kick me out because it is private property.

    Now I do understand that a company can ask anyone to leave BUT is it not harrassment to make me leave for something that is a right of all americans? I feel that is in NO way different than asking a black man and his family to leave immediately because they felt uncomfortable with black people. Not only is that wrong but it is a violation of any law abiding citizens civil rights.

    I went to the police station to speak with the detective who was spreading that information and to understand what he was using to come to those conclusions (I wanted to see the law). The front desk lady was VERY unhelpful and basically made me out to be a bad guy. "in this day and age a gun is very scarry" "i would feel very uncomfortable" etc etc. So I got nowhere with her and apparently the detective was gone. So I left them my number and will soon be speaking with them. I'd like to come as prepared as possible. If in fact they can make me leave for carrying a gun then so be it. I just ask that they show me the law that gives them the right to overturn federal laws.

    I've gone through this twice before with Home Depot and Wal-mart, both of which offered there sincierest (spelling) appoligies from the corporate office's when they indeed knew it was against the law (considered harrassment I believe).

    The thing that most bugs me is that our own police officers don't know the law, they use what they feel is correct based on their own perception of what makes them comfortable and doesn't. I don't carry a gun to make people comfortable, I carry it to protect the lives of me and my family, and for that matter anyone around me. I feel that it is a disgrace that our own police who are there to "uphold the law" don't know the law. So if anyone could help with information for me to present to the detective I would appreciate that. Anything from court decisions to NRS code. I want to make it perfectly clear I am within the law. Thanks and sorry for the long message.

  2. #2
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    For some reason, movie theater personnel seem to get very twitchy around guns. Most likely, the only experience they have around guns is watching the trash that Hollyweird puts out.

    Most places allow private property owners to make their own rules on what you can or cannot do on their premises. If you don't want to play by their games, then take your ball and go somewhere else.

    You can always come back in around 3 months.



    LoveMyCountry




  3. #3
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Unfortunately the bearer of a firearm is not afforded the same civil rights protection under the law as other civil rights. They have the right to ask you to leave.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    Unfortunately the bearer of a firearm is not afforded the same civil rights protection under the law as other civil rights. They have the right to ask you to leave.
    Do you happen to have any links to where I could read about that such as "the law" that says they can make me leave for carrying a gun? I'm not saying that they can't, I've just read that its not legal because it is harassment.

    I think there is a good arguement on both sides. For one I wouldn't argue with it at all if they followed the law and posted the building with signs. I would gladly obey.

    They aren't posted so the law says its legal, and it is a right of every citizen so is it not "segregation" or the same as "racism". From what I know you have to treat everyone the same, and thats how it should be. You don't get to ask hispanics to leave because you don't like them. Why? Because its totally legal to be hispanic. And if its totally legal to carry a gun how can they make you leave?

    I would gladly listen to a "mom and pop shop" that asked me to leave, but a corporation such as walmart, home depot, century theaters do not have any rules prohibiting firearms so how can the rogue employees make that crap up???

    I just want to either be informed of the legality if I am wrongor inform them.

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    If it isn't public domain like a library or other public facility, they can ask you to leave. If you do not leave, then you can/probably will be faced with criminal tresspassing charges.

    Most movie theaters have the "no gun" signs posted, but those really have no bearing on the law. They still have to verbally tell you to leave, and if you don't comply then they can file the trespassing charges.

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    mercutio545 wrote:
    Most movie theaters have the "no gun" signs posted, but those really have no bearing on the law. They still have to verbally tell you to leave, and if you don't comply then they can file the trespassing charges.
    Whether or not the signs carry any legal weight varies from state to state. b18turboef does not specify what state he's from, and this is not posted under a specific state. In VA, mercutio545 is absolutely correct. In NC, if the notice is placed in a "conspicuous" manner then the statute does apply, at least to permitholders and CC. Some other states require that the notice quote the statute number or conform to other standards to carry legal weight. In most cases, a violation is still a trespassing charge, not a gun charge, but again, this depends on the state.

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    b18turboef does not specify what state he's from

    Per b18turboef's second sentence of his first post, he is from NV. I do not know how much weight signs carry in NV though...jimwyant do you?

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    Yes I am in Reno, NV.

    If what you guys are saying is true about them being able to ask me to leave (im not doubting it) then how come Home Depot and Wal-mart both appoligized for their employee's behavior and said I was able to carry in their stores? I assume they are the same type of "corporation" as Century Movie theaters. I know there is no sign posted on the theater and even the employees agreed that it was not posted.

    From my understanding after dealing with Home Depot/Wal-mart it either HAS to be posted or be in the corporate policy, if not then you are free to carry regardless of the "managers" wishes. Thats how they explained it to me, both times the managers involved got "in trouble".

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    And private business can deny service to anyone they want, provided that it is not discriminatory (i.e. based on a condition you have no choice in, such as age, race, sex, etc...). Some places are are more appropriate to conceal in... Though, I understand that is not an option for you yet. Kudos for following this one through, though...

    Since they don't have signs posted, they'll have to manually kick you out each time, or decide to post signs (which I'm not sure carry any legal weight in NV, anyways)... If you get kicked outseveral times repeatedly without them posting any policy, I'd suggest you make a stink about it to corporate, accusing them of discrimination for an act which is totally legal and not against any policy which they require from all of their patrons. Though, I personally would simply refrain from giving them any more business, that way you can just smile and conceal once you get your permit. Since the primary concern is having a tool with which to defend yourself, not be overly confrontational. That usually only causes a negative reaction.

    I hope you made them refund your tickets!

    molonlabetn

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    Thanks for the longer explanation, and I agree, I dont want to make confrontations. I also did make them give us our money back. Luckily the movie was TERRIBLE lol.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    b18, You will need to contact the theatre's Corporate office to find out their policy. It sounds like HD and WalMart to not allow their manager's to 'make it up as they go along'. Some company's may not have a policy but would back their managers decision. I found nothing specific in NV firearm code relating to signage or trespassing as it relates to guns. In theory you could say it was a violation of your civil rights. However, I have seen no law that recoginizes carrying a firearm as a civil right. Even though it is in the Bill of Rights!!!

    disclaimer: IANAL and might just be talkin out my ass.:shock:

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    b18, You will need to contact the theatre's Corporate office to find out their policy. It sounds like HD and WalMart to not allow their manager's to 'make it up as they go along'. Some company's may not have a policy but would back their managers decision. I found nothing specific in NV firearm code relating to signage or trespassing as it relates to guns. In theory you could say it was a violation of your civil rights. However, I have seen no law that recoginizes carrying a firearm as a civil right. Even though it is in the Bill of Rights!!!

    disclaimer: IANAL and might just be talkin out my ass.:shock:
    Well thank you, the reason I made the post is, I have searched and searched through the Nevada Revised Statutes and not seen a thing. I have HEARD what I was doing is 100% legal and I believe it was. It would be one thing to ask me to leave the weapon in the car upon entering the building, but to send 3 employee's searching for me in the middle of a movie is completely different. If they had seen me what would they do? Make a huge scene and scare people by yelling "he's got a gun"??
    I do not think it was a professional way to handle the situation at all. I will respect what the corporate office says, I have sent a nice complaint in and expect to hear from them soon.
    The thing that scares me is that my own local police department representative (the front desk lady) knew very little about the law and would do nothing to help me. She again used what SHE felt was ok by saying, "well if I was there I would be uncomfortable" etc. I asked that she show me ANYTHING in writing that they can make me leave and she could not provide anything.
    The movie theater does not even have a "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" sign posted.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I have HEARD what I was doing is 100% legal and I believe it was.
    It's not really an issue of legal or not legal. You are legally allowed to OC, they are legally allowed to tell you to leave.


    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  14. #14
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    A summary of the situation:

    1) You are within your rights to open carry

    2) It was perfectly legal for you to be open carrying in a movie theatre

    3) They are within their private property right to ask you to leave.

    4) If you refuse to leave after being asked, you are guilty of trespass

    5) A private business may refuse service to anyone they choose as long as
    the reason they are refusing service is not because the person belongs
    to a protected class (ie. sex, race, religion, national origin)

    6) The reason that WalMart and others have apologized for local managers
    is that the managers acted against corporate policy which is that they
    will allow whatever local and state law allows.

    7) The best way to change the minds of local businesses is to act professional
    in all dealings with them and make it clear to them that they are losing
    money and good customers with their policy. Confrontational arguments
    never achieve anything (I am not saying that you were confrontational,
    only making a general point).

    8) They did nothing illegal, so the police are powerless to help you. They WOULD
    however, have arrested you if you had refused to leave (see point 4 above).

    Having said all of this, I hope you continue to open carry and be an ambassador to the other citizens of NV about their rights.

    Welcome to OpenCarry.Org!



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    One technique to use when you want to OC - enter the area while concealed and transition later to OC. You present management with a fait accompli, and maybe they learn somthing too.

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    Thanks for the last two replies, As for the last one I'm not sure if you read the part about me not having a permit to conceal, nor am I able to attain one at all for the next 3 months. I will continue to open carry regardless of any situation that presents itself.

    I choose to open carry everywhere, in the last 3 months carrying has become part of my life. When I put my keys and wallet in my pockets I strap on my CQC holster and begin my day. I only remove the gun when I go to the post office etc. Most of the places I visit regularly have become used to it and treat me with lots of respect. 9 of 10 times it goes great. Every once in a while you get people like this that make a huge deal out of nothing

  17. #17
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    Invite the manager to go shooting with you. Teach him the basics of firearms safety and let him shoot some rounds.I LOVE teaching new people my hobby, and in this case, maybe you could turn an anti into a pro2A.

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    Did you ask the manager for your money back? I know this may seem trivial, but it can impact the way they think. In my opinion the best way to handle a situation like this is to remain calm, inform the manager that you are not breaking the law but that you will take you money elsewhere if he wishes, and then ask for a refund for the movie you didn't get to see. At some point you may also want to ask for his managers contact information. Getting your money back is important because they get to physically see the money leaving their establishment.

    Just remember, if that theater manager is unfamiliar with guns and gun owners, then YOU will be representing all of us! Meaning that if you are rude and obnoxious, then to that manager all gun owners are rude and obnoxious. However if you are calm and polite it could make therest of us to look good. Just a few things to keep in the back of you mind while OC'ing.

    (BTW, I am not saying that you were rude or obnoxious, I was just giving an example.)

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    tex, im not sure if you read it all but yes I made them give me our money back for all 5 tickets. I allways remain very calm and polite in all situations, of course when you represent guns you eed to do a good job.

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    b18turboef wrote:
    tex, im not sure if you read it all but yes I made them give me our money back for all 5 tickets. I allways remain very calm and polite in all situations, of course when you represent guns you eed to do a good job.
    Sorry, I missed the post where you said they gave your money back. I really don't know why movie theaters are more of a problem than most other places. Don't get discouraged and keep OC'ing!

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