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Thread: Woman 92 dies in shootout with police.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/l...l/16069862.htm

    Police: 3 narcotics officers shot
    Associated Press ATLANTA -
    Three police narcotics officers were shot Tuesday night while serving a warrant at a house in northwest Atlanta, officials said.
    One suspect also was wounded, and another was in custody, police said.
    The Atlanta Police officers were transported to Grady Memorial Hospital for treatment. One was hit in the arm, another a thigh and the third in a shoulder, and all three were conscious and alert, police said.

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/21/D8LHSRR01.html

    Woman, 92, Dies in Shootout With Police

    A 92-year-old woman was shot to death Tuesday after she fired at three narcotics officers trying to serve a warrant at her house, officials said. Neighbors and relatives said it must have been a case of mistaken identity. Police said they had the right address.
    Police said the woman, whose name was not released, was the only person home at the time, and had lived there for about 17 years.
    As the plainclothes Atlanta police officers approached the house about 7 p.m., a woman inside started shooting, striking each of them, said Officer Joe Cobb, a police spokesman. One was hit in the arm, another in a thigh and the third in a shoulder.
    The officers were taken to a hospital for treatment, and all three were conscious and alert, police said.
    Sarah Dozier, identified as a niece of the woman, told WAGA-TV that there were never any drugs at the house.
    "My aunt was in good health. I'm sure she panicked when they kicked that door down," Dozier said. "There was no reason they had to go in there and shoot her down like a dog."



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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Interesting............ have to keep an eye on that story for more details.

    The niece say's they kicked the door down while the other article states the police were on the porch.

    On the surface it appears the police had the wrong house. However, there is nothing that say's old ladies can't be involved in illegal activty.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Maybe but I'll bet almost all 92 year olds have aged out of slinging dope. My opinion is they just killed a taxpayer defending herself from what she perceived as a home invasion.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Atlanta-Journal Constitution

    Woman, 92, fatally shot as 3 Atlanta officers wounded

    By JEFFRY SCOTT, S.A. REID
    The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
    Published on: 11/21/06 A 92-year-old woman was killed after she shot three Atlanta narcotics officers Tuesday night when they broke down the front door of her home trying to serve a search warrant, police said.
    One officer was hit in the arm, one was struck in the shoulder, and one was shot in the thigh. All were rushed to Grady Memorial Hospital, where they were in stable condition late Tuesday night. Police did not release their identities.
    Charlotte Teagle/StaffPolice investigate the scene on Neal Street in northwest Atlanta where a 92-year-old woman was killed in an exchange of gunfire with police. Three officers were shot serving a warrant at her house.
    More photos from the scene
    Atlanta assistant police Chief Alan Dreher, in a news conference outside the hospital emergency room, declined to confirm the identity of the woman, but he said the warrant was served at the correct address. He said he did not know what name was on the warrant. He said the woman was the only one in the home at the time.
    Sarah C. Dozier identified the dead woman as her aunt, Kathryn Johnston. Dozier said she had been looking forward to going to her aunt's house for Thanksgiving dinner as she does every year.
    Dozier said she talked to her aunt every day and the conversation was often about crime in the neighborhood.
    "Every window in her home and every door on her home has burglar bars," said Dozier. "I talked to her the other day about a 72-year-old who was raped. I know she was just scared."
    Dreher, the assistant police chief, said as far as he knew the narcotics officers did "everything by the book. They had a search warrant, they announced themselves and knocked first." He said the incident is still under investigation and "will be for days."
    He declined to say how many shots were fired and what kind of gun the woman had. Dozier said her aunt owned a pistol. "I don't know what kind and it was rusty, but apparently it was working well."
    A neighbor, Yolanda Jackson, 42, said she was sitting on the front porch of her home on Joseph E. Lowery Boulevard a block away when undercover narcotics officers, who were not in street uniforms, showed up around 7 p.m. to serve a search warrant at Johnston's home, at 933 Neal St.
    "I heard 'pow, pow, pow, pow,' " said Jackson. "A whole lot of gunfire, really fast." She estimated the number between 16 and 24. She said within five minutes, "about 20" police cars swarmed into the area.
    A few minutes later ambulances showed up and a helicopter was hovering over the neighborhood, which is an intown mix of dilapidated homes, houses being refurbished and a few new infill houses.
    By 8:15 p.m. police had Neal Street blocked off from the corner of Joseph Lowery as investigators went in and out of the home bringing out bags of evidence, according to neighbors, and TV news crews set up street shots.
    Comparison to DeKalb shootings
    "The same thing is happening here as is going on in DeKalb County," said neighbor Tony Torrance, making a reference to 12 police shootings in the neighboring county this year. "Police are shooting people. They aren't following procedure."
    The shooting came on the same day the district attorney in DeKalb announced she would ask for a grand jury to review Police Department investigations of a string of deadly police shootings there this year.
    Atlanta police declined to say what they were searching for when they went to Johnston's home. The woman's niece, Dozier, who lives in Fayette County, said she had yet to be told by police that her aunt was dead even though police had called a news conference and talked to reporters outside Grady Memorial Hospital.
    "I had to hear she had been shot on TV," said Dozier, who said she wants a lot of questions answered and plans to hire a lawyer to get that information from police.
    "As far as I'm concerned, they shot her down like a dog," she said.

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    personally id say that was a bs move by the police. i'm not saying its impossible for a 92 yr old to sell dope. but very slim chance. tough old lady though, got all 3 cops, thats good shooting right there. sad to see they would do that though.

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Uncertain legalities aside, from a pure gunfighting point of view it's a good illustration of the axiom "never underestimate your opponent." (And of the corollary -- never overestimate your own abilities.)
    A. Gold

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    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Too bad she didn't have slugs. She might have stopped them and saved her own life.

    As it was, there was ZERO difference in the outcome of this incident than if the 3 men breaking down her doorhad beencriminals carrying out a home-invasion.

    I hope they never come to 'protect and serve' me!

    molonlabetn

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I don't know about that, I think home invaders would have been more likely to flee from her gunfire, but that is just my opinion.

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    longwatch wrote:
    I don't know about that, I think home invaders would have been more likely to flee from her gunfire, but that is just my opinion.
    Too true... Criminalsare generally cowards who won't stand up to resistance. Boy, those cops sure showed her!

    molonlabetn

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    It is probably wrong to rush to judgement here, but I find this deal troubling for the following reasons:

    IF the cops have screwed up here, we can safely bet that they will move heaven and earth to conceal the fact.

    Was this a no-knock warrant or not?

    Could not the lady have been arrested in a less "dynamic" manner?

    Finally, there are many law abiding guys like me, who,should the cops get the wrong house, and come screaming in,will take the appropriate action. Can you all say"expired, but in a large pile of brass", boys and girls?

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    They showed a picture of this woman on TV. She didn't look very mobile.

    This is America. If you break down someone's door, you should expect to take fire. No matter how many times you yell "police" as you go in. Especially since any home invader can yell "police" to try and get the homeowner to hesitate.



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    Great points that the gentleman of the Native American cutlery makes!

    Although generally supportive of the police, they are courting disaster, IMHO, with some of these "dynamic entry" deals.Sadly, theyare hyped up with talk of war on drugs, war on terror, and perhaps perceive themselves to be crusaders in a righteous conflict!

    One suspects, however, that a lot of this stuff is just grandstanding. We all remember Waco ,Ruby Ridge etc.Too many warrior cops, and, occasionally, they get more than they bargain for!Whatever the outcome of this most recent fiasco, the little old lady was a regular marksman, no?

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I saw a clip of a news conference by the Asst Police Chief. He looked very uncomfortable. Almost like "I hope people are buying this".

    They say an undercover agent bought drugs from someone in that house, not the old lady. Guess we'll have to wait and see if it was legimate or they screwed the pooch on this one. Tragic either way.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    This incident does have a similar ring to the DeKalb GA. Incident. The focus of the DeKalb county incident seems to boil down to confidential informants. Police are reluctant to ID CI’s even to the court. Most CI’s are ten times the scum they are ratting out. If a CI gets the info wrong the warrant is still valid because the police acted in good faith. Facts in evidence are usually not a component of “good faith”.

    “Plainclothes” dynamic entry should be unlawful!

    I wonder if the three detectives were wearing body armor, if so the victim may even be a better shot than we currently have ascertained. The police are certainly collecting a lot more evidence at the scene than the Warrant specified; let’s just hope it all sees the light of day.

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    When will people learn that the damn "no-knocks" are a major problem and start taking back our government? The cops always have the same old lie "oh,...well.. we knocked and then just opened the door...." never saying that they just kicked it in and started causing trouble. This story is a true tragedy since the victim was murdered but at least she was able to leave a mark on three of the criminals.

    The police are the standing armies the founders were talking about.

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    What of the suspect mentioned in the first short article that was in custody? The other, seemingly more detailed, articles said that the 92 year old woman was in the house alone.

    That was pretty darn good shootin'though for a 92 year old if you ask me. There are a lot of cops who can't shoot that well.

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    Toad wrote:
    When will people learn that the damn "no-knocks" are a major problem and start taking back our government? The cops always have the same old lie "oh,...well.. we knocked and then just opened the door...." never saying that they just kicked it in and started causing trouble. This story is a true tragedy since the victim was murdered but at least she was able to leave a mark on three of the criminals.

    The police are the standing armies the founders were talking about.
    I am totally with you. Standing armies are the bane of liberty... END THE GOVERNMENT MONOPOLIZATION OF DEFENSE AND FORCE!

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Danbus, thanks for posting that. I have been searching for updated news but couldn't locate anything. WTF!! were they thinking. Starting to look like some cops will be in deep poo poo.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Police have discretionary power for the purpose of protecting citizens from laws that violate their rights -- it is a protection against bad government and people who make bad decisions via voting.

    I have not yet found any description of this warrant relating to commission of a violent crime or any crime that harmed another person.

    Narcotics officers generally deal with drugs, not violent crimes (I'm quite sure there is a specific division for crimes of a damaging nature, and the term is NOT "narcotics"!) Violent crimes may occur alongside drugs, but those crimes are of little concern to narcotics officers.

    If they even wished to pursue this, based on the above:
    Given no reason to deem this to be a potentially violent situation, could they not simply "surround" the house, and with telephone or speakphone, first inform or attempt multiple times to contact the persons on the premsis that they have a legal search warrant FROM OFF THE PROPERTY, that they can and should use the phone number given or look in the phonebook to call a police station or court to verify that there has been a served search warrant (I think this may be a matter a public record so it shouldn't be an issue to institute a 24/7 system), give the person a short period for verification, make a move on the premisis with many knocks (remember this person doesn't have anywhere to go, really), perform a non-invasive entry if somehow required (doors and locks as they generally are hardly act for prevention of entry, rather, "in the act" visuals/sound and after-the-fact obvious 'breaking'), not being a bunch of schmucks in the process...

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