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Thread: Why Ask? It's Your Right To Carry Isn't It?

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    Will someone explain to me why you would want to ask if you can carry a weapon on public premises? Aside from the obvious places we all know not to carry, I think trying to call a business or restaraunt to get their policy on carrying weapons when you patronize their business is...well, whimpy. You just do it! I scrupulously scoure the entrance to a business for any "no guns" posting and if there isn't any prominently displayed, I go on in packin'. This mentality of "mommy...may I please bring my gun in with me" has to cease. It's your right so act like it. Stop being a whimp!

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    GodGunsnGuts wrote:
    Will someone explain to me why you would want to ask if you can carry a weapon on public premises? Aside from the obvious places we all know not to carry, I think trying to call a business or restaraunt to get their policy on carrying weapons when you patronize their business is...well, whimpy. You just do it! I scrupulously scoure the entrance to a business for any "no guns" posting and if there isn't any prominently displayed, I go on in packin'. This mentality of "mommy...may I please bring my gun in with me" has to cease. It's your right so act like it. Stop being a whimp!
    I don't know about asking before, but I have asked after being asked to leave.

    We see many times that it is just some errand employee that decides to define policy and ask you to leave, not the policy of the store.

    Does anyone know if they have to ask you to leave everytime in VA, or is a past "asking" enough to cover forever?

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    possumboy wrote:
    Does anyone know if they have to ask you to leave everytime in VA, or is a past "asking" enough to cover forever?

    Good question.

    I would think they would have to get a trespassing order from a judge issued to you for it to hold up from past incidents. Virginia Code ยง 18.2-119:


    http://virginiacriminallawyers.vatra.../trespass.html

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    Opossumboy...I've lived by the follow axiom my entire life and it's served me well with very few exceptions..."It's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission". Our forefathers lived by this creedo and built this great nation using it. If it's not posted otherwise...do it, but be prepared to pay the consequences (if any).

    3G

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    GodGunsnGuts wrote:
    "It's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission".
    3G
    Thats been my philosophy inMilitary Logistics for many years now. LOL. As long asyouare looking out for the Soldiers or the Unit and not personal interests, itworksvery well.

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    GodGunsnGuts wrote:
    Opossumboy...I've lived by the follow axiom my entire life and it's served me well with very few exceptions..."It's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission". Our forefathers lived by this creedo and built this great nation using it. If it's not posted otherwise...do it, but be prepared to pay the consequences (if any).

    3G
    possumboywas saying that he would ask them what their policy is after they ask him to leave. Not before. And I agree with him, it is good to find out the businesses policy if you are asked to leave.

    GodGunsnGuts, have you ever seen this to be an issue, or was this just an off-the-wall question? I am just wondering because I have never really heard of this being an issue with OC.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I'm kinda curious where the original premise for this question comes from. I would say the mantra of this board is 'Don't ask don't tell'. The restaurant carry thread alone should be a pretty good example of people open carrying and carrying on as normal without seeking permission to do so.

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    GodGunsnGuts wrote:
    "It's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission".
    I think we are doing the same thing:
    We both carry where-ever we want to and leave if asked. I have asked about policy after being asked to leave, but I have never asked permission to defend my family.

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    What exactly defines private property? I have read that someone cannot tell you to leave if you are on public property and OCing, but Private property can. Is the mall private property? What about Best Buy? Wal-mart? are any national chains private property? I was told to leave Best buy by some employee who felt uneasy or something because i was standing next to my buddy and legally carrying. He said it was the law adn i said no its not the law, and he changed his mind and said it was store policy. First this kid was like 20 so i dont think he knows what store policy is, adn they didnt have a sign prohibiting it either. Would he have stopped me if i was CCW? No, he wouldnt have seen it. Did they have the right to kick me out of the store or could i have told them no, and they would have called the cops and the cops told them sorry cant do anything? or is a place like that considered private property?

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    I have called and asked a couple times, but mainly for my own convenance. Most places I go I have a wife and two year old son in tow. I'd love to be able to show up at a restraunt, public event, etc. and, if they kick me out for carrying (which is their right) proudly march off saying "FINE, I'll take my business ELSEWHERE!" but sometimes that's just not practical. I'm not at the point where I can honestly say "I'd rather not go to the fair, than go to the fair unarmed." Or schlep the kid in and out of his car seat if we get denied service at a restraunt.

    So there you go. Yes, I realize it legitimizes the anti croud, but I like to legitimize feeding myself and family too.

    ---A

    Edit to add: It is my right to carry, but it is also a private property owner's right to ask me to leave, and if they are going to exercise that right, I suppose I'd rather know about it before hand than after I'm already there.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    What did they say when you called and asked?

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    livitup wrote:
    I have called and asked a couple times, but mainly for my own convenance. Most places I go I have a wife and two year old son in tow. I'd love to be able to show up at a restraunt, public event, etc. and, if they kick me out for carrying (which is their right) proudly march off saying "FINE, I'll take my business ELSEWHERE!" but sometimes that's just not practical.
    Come on, this almost never happens in VA.

    Calling ahead of time cedes the power to the person you ask - your asking implies they have the authority to tell you waht to do, even if the owner never granted such power to them.

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    It _has_ happened to me a few times, in Virginia.

    I was attending an event at a "executive conference center" type place. It was about a 2 hour drive from my house. If I don't call, and they do end up having a problem (which they did) then I would be faced with the choice of leaving the gun in the car for a week and being disarmed anyway, or driving back to my house to secure it, and then driving back to the event, and spending the week unarmed. Either way, I am unarmed. I just saved myself a 4 hour round-trip or a busted window and stolen gun by asking first. For me it was more important to go the event than to be armed.

    I don't usually call ahead to restraunts, etc. but there are times it just makes sense. That and I also don't want to raise unnecessary awareness of the fact that I'm armed when with groups of friends or business associates. "Concealed means concealed," but I respect the rights of property owners just as much as I respect 2A laws. If I have to get in a discussion with the property owner, or go home/back out to the car to unarm myself, then I have drawn attention to the fact that I carry...not what I usually want.

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    <snip> I don't usually call ahead to restaurants, etc. but there are times it just makes sense.</snip>

    Livitup,As you can see I am from Culpeper as well. I normally do not see people open carrying in restaurants. From what you wrote I believe you are saying you CC in restaurants. I could be reading it wrong. Restaurants (not fast food) serve Alcohol so I would think you need to OC. Or you open carry because you can.

    Where have people WITHOUT a CHP open carried without issue in Culpeper?

    Also -- If anyonewants do a range meetingin this area let get it started.

    DeadCenter

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I think it is a bad idea to call ahead. If an establishment doesn't have a policy (and most places don't) you are asking them to make a decision over the phone. More often than not that decision will be negative, whereas just carrying OC or CC is much less likely to elicit a no guns policy. Better to let sleeping dogs lie as it were. However by calling ahead you also may encourage posting of an establishment where there was none before, so other gun carriers will not be denied that business as well. If you are already willing to go unarmed why would you risk screwing things up for other gunowners?

    As for concealed means concealed if you are just going to break the law by carrying concealed in restaurants then why did you waste your money getting a permit? Also if you should have to use deadly force in a place that your permit is not valid, your otherwise justifiable shooting becomes a crime and your treatment by the commonwealth attorney will reflect that.

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    I think ive pretty much come down to this; if i really dont careabout getting into an discussion an/or getting kicked out of an establishment for carrying then i do that when im by myself or with a buddy. But if i am entertaining a female friend and dont want to be sent away then i will leave it in my car.

    I have read that in order to not be CCing in a car you need your gun laying on the seat or on the dash or something. What if you have it in your holster on your hip? Does wearing anormal OC holster in a car make it concealed?

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    PackininVB wrote:
    I think ive pretty much come down to this; if i really dont careabout getting into an discussion an/or getting kicked out of an establishment for carrying then i do that when im by myself or with a buddy. But if i am entertaining a female friend and dont want to be sent away then i will leave it in my car.

    I have read that in order to not be CCing in a car you need your gun laying on the seat or on the dash or something. What if you have it in your holster on your hip? Does wearing anormal OC holster in a car make it concealed?
    Many folks believe it unwiseto leave loaded guns in cars; and removing ammunition from guns being secured in vehicles is unneceesary gun handling in public.

    As for open carry in vehicles, I am aware of no VA authority holding that a gun must be displayed upon a seat or dash to be in plaint sight - hip or shoulder holster carry should be Ok provided neither clothing or seatbelts conceal it.

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    Well my only problem is that i carry on my left hand side, so theres the door, my gun and then me.

    And when i leave my gun in my car i put it in the center console so that you cant see it.

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    After being told to leave best buy because they said it was their policy to have no firearms in the store i emailed their customer relations and got this back...



    Thank you for contacting Best Buy about carrying a sidearm. I'm Rex
    with
    Customer Care.

    We appreciate your feedback about our store's gun policy. We are
    committed to abiding to all state and local regulations, and we are
    also
    committed to the safety of our customers and employees. Signs
    prohibiting the lawful carrying of guns in our stores have been
    removed.
    In regard to your situation, we recommend calling our Virginia Beach
    store's management for a further explanation. We appreciate your
    continued support and patronage of our stores.

    Thank you for sharing your comments with Best Buy. Please do not
    hesitate to contact us with additional questions or concerns.


    Best Wishes from Best Buy,
    Rex and the Customer Care Team


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    Sorry for missing the replies to my comment above...

    No I don't ever CC in ABC licenced locations, nor to I recommend or condone it.

    If I am going to go to a restraunt by myself, or with like-minded friends, I generally do not ask. If I am going with my blue-state wife and family, or a large gaggle of general associates in front of whom I would prefer not to get into a discussion with management, then I may call ahead. I would also call ahead if I was going some place like an amusement park, the state fair, etc.

    Really I don't want to be in the situation where I get to the gate, get told I can't carry, and then have to walk/take the tram/shuttle bus/whatever back to my car, handle my pistol without brandishing it/scaring the sheep/shooting my toe off, and then leave it in the car all day where it could get stolen/molested/looked at funny. Then back to the gate where my wife is pissed because my "stupid gun" made them wait at the gate for 20 minutes and the kid is running around screaming his head off.

    I also respect the rights of property owners too much to purposely go against their wishes, so if they have a posted weapons policy, I wouldn't violate it even if "concealed means concealed." So follow the above paragraph again for CC.

    Sorry if you think I am giving too much opportunity to property owners, but I would just rather not subject myself to all that crap.

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