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Thread: Can a LEO disarm you for no reason?

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    For instance, if I was out shopping and walked past one and he told me to give him the weapon, could I say no and refuse? I know that it would be less trouble just to give it to him and get it sorted out, but if it's my right not to relenquish it to the LEO, then I'm not going to.

    *By the way, this hasn't happened to me recently, I was just thinking about the time last May when a Richmond LEO took my shotgun away from me when I was OC'ing with it (walking it from the car to the apartment, about 1-2 blocks), and threatened me with felony charges. Just want to make sure that I can refuse and stand up for myself without breaking the law.

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    Yes, you can try to break contact and certainly have the right to refuse consent to searches and property seizure. But if you are detained or arrested, you should remain silent except to ask for an attorney, decalre that you are refusing consent for any proerpty seizure or searches, etc., that you want to speak to the watch commander and make a complaint right now, etc.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    As I understand it... They need to have a 'reason', they can't disarm and detain you for the mere fact you are carrying, without some other 'articulable' reason.

    Me: I would challenge his reason for doing so, if he 'insisted' I would comply to keep the situation from getting out of hand, ie, me arrested. Then file a complaint, lawsuit, whatever the incident might dictate.

    IANAL
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    But if the LEO tries to physically take the gun from my holster/put me in cuffs, I can't try to fight my way out of it and stand up for myself, even though I know I did nothing wrong?

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    once the cuffs go on, its an arrest, and you shouldn't fight it physically, but you can verballs (in a non threatening way) resist

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    So I could still be charged with resisting arrest, even though the LEO would be charged with wrongful arrest?

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    mercutio545 wrote:
    But if the LEO tries to physically take the gun from my holster/put me in cuffs, I can't try to fight my way out of it and stand up for myself, even though I know I did nothing wrong?
    Physically fighting with an officer while being stopped never a good thing. It is a good way to get wounded, if not killed. You must remember they are there doing a job and dont need alot of ********. No one likes it when someone comes to there work and is a ass. 99% of the time everything will go smoother if you treat the officer repect and calmly talk with them. Dont get me wrong, you can still show respect without giving up your rigths or kissing ass. Here is what happen to be by a sullfolk police officer not to long ago.

    On the way to school I was speeding due to being late and forgetting how to tell time. As i flew by the police car at 55 in a 35 i knew i was screwed. Lights went on and i pulled over. As the officer came up to the side of my jeep and i told him i was armed. He then asked me " where in the car was my weapon". I calmly replied, it was in its holster and attached to my right hip. He asked me to step out of the car slowly while keeping my hands visible. I complied with out a problem. He then asked me to slowly remove my gun and secure the round in the camber. I did give him a weird look and asked if i was being detained for legally carrying my sidearm. He quickly said no, but for his own peace of mind he would like the gun to be unloaded and secured. Not having a problem with this I complied once again. AS i tuned the gun away from the officer, removed the round in the chamber, he asked me to please put the gun on the hood of the car .Now, at this time i was started to wonder. I asked again if i was beingdetained and if the officer wasasking for me to surrender my firearm. Heonce again said no. He informed me that he had noticed something on my gun (an American flag) and waswanting to look at the gun with out "taking it from me". I kinda laughed at this point and told him i had no problems with him looking at it. We talked for a few min.'s about my Sig. (he was in the market of buying a new toy) and i reminded him i was late to class. My check for warrants came back "good", and the officer reminded me to slow down. With out giving me a ticket he let me go and i was only a few min.'s late for my test.

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    mercutio545 wrote:
    But if the LEO tries to physically take the gun from my holster/put me in cuffs, I can't try to fight my way out of it and stand up for myself, even though I know I did nothing wrong?
    Physically fighting with an officer while being stopped never a good thing. It is a good way to get wounded, if not killed. You must remember they are there doing a job and dont need alot of ********. No one likes it when someone comes to there work and is a ass. 99% of the time everything will go smoother if you treat the officer repect and calmly talk with them. Dont get me wrong, you can still show respect without giving up your rigths or kissing ass. Here is what happen to be by a sullfolk police officer not to long ago.

    On the way to school I was speeding due to being late and forgetting how to tell time. As i flew by the police car at 55 in a 35 i knew i was screwed. Lights went on and i pulled over. As the officer came up to the side of my jeep and i told him i was armed. He then asked me " where in the car was my weapon". I calmly replied, it was in its holster and attached to my right hip. He asked me to step out of the car slowly while keeping my hands visible. I complied with out a problem. He then asked me to slowly remove my gun and secure the round in the camber. I did give him a weird look and asked if i was being detained for legally carrying my sidearm. He quickly said no, but for his own peace of mind he would like the gun to be unloaded and secured. Not having a problem with this I complied once again. AS i tuned the gun away from the officer, removed the round in the chamber, he asked me to please put the gun on the hood of the car .Now, at this time i was started to wonder. I asked again if i was beingdetained and if the officer wasasking for me to surrender my firearm. Heonce again said no. He informed me that he had noticed something on my gun (an American flag) and waswanting to look at the gun with out "taking it from me". I kinda laughed at this point and told him i had no problems with him looking at it. We talked for a few min.'s about my Sig. (he was in the market of buying a new toy) and i reminded him i was late to class. My check for warrants came back "good", and the officer reminded me to slow down. With out giving me a ticket he let me go and i was only a few min.'s late for my test.

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    good thread!

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    can I own a shotgun or ar -15 semi auto rifle and walk to my car or from car to my home ? semi auto fifle is not machinegun so is there any problem?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Depending on if they are loaded, if you don't have a CHP, where you are, and if the weapon is an "assault weapon" you may fall under 18.2-287.4 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-287.4

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    Campaign Veteran kimbercarrier's Avatar
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    Didn't this get preempted?

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    No. It is a state law, and preemption only prohibits localities from passing ordinances that differ from state law. One good thing, though - it does exempt CHP holders from the law, as longwatch stated.

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    I want to buy a AR-15 pre ban? or which is legal in VA? Which brand is good for semi-auto with 10 rounds mag. I prefer 9mm. Can i keep the AR-15 loaded inside my car in plain view? I have CHP permit also.

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    I believe by keeping a rifle loaded in the car where you can easily reach it might fall under some hunting law ordinances. However, I imagine in most cases, keeping in trunk would be fine. "Assault Weapons" are allowed in VA without issue. I have Armalite AR15 with 30 round mag that is completely legal. When I transport it from my house to my car, I just walk with it slung over my shoulder in it's case with mag seperated and unloaded. Probably more then I'm required to do but I have a pistol for personal defense. I've thrown in the back of car and ran into Manassas Police with it in back of car and only comment was "Have a nice day"

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    rabbit994 wrote:
    I believe by keeping a rifle loaded in the car where you can easily reach it might fall under some hunting law ordinances.
    IANAL, but to my knowledge and experience you can carry long guns openly just as you would carry handguns (granted, this is technically OK, but you're still going to freak some people out when you walk into walmart with an AR slung on your back ) , so you would be OK with keeping it in your car. When I go on road trips in VA, I usually keep my 12 ga. in the backseat in plain view.

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    Here is a neat story about a lawyer who open carried his AR while apprehending some vandals.

    http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...00339/-1/CINCI



    It seems it was effective.(although IF it was loaded in the car, here in OH it was not legal, but I doubt he incriminated himself).

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    how many rifle rounds are allowed to have by someone in VA?

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    how many rifle rounds are allowed to have by someone in VA?

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    If your talking about magazine restrictions, there are no magazine restrictions for ownership. There is open carry ban of pistols and rifles that hold over 20 rounds in urban areas along with threaded barrels.

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    rabbit994 wrote:
    If you're talking about magazine restrictions, there are no magazine restrictions for ownership. There is open carry ban of pistols and rifles that hold over 20 rounds in urban areas along with threaded barrels.
    ...if you are "(i) in any city with a population of 160,000 or more or (ii) in any county having an urban county executive form of government or any county or city surrounded thereby or adjacent thereto or in any county having a county manager form of government." (VA Code, ยง 18.2-287.4), and if you don't have a CHP.

    If either of these is not true, then no restriction exists. You can legally carry an AR-15 with a 90-round drum in downtown Newport News if you have a CHP, and you can carry the same weapon in Piney River without a CHP and be legal.

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    mercutio545 wrote:
    For instance, if I was out shopping and walked past one and he told me to give him the weapon, could I say no and refuse? I know that it would be less trouble just to give it to him and get it sorted out, but if it's my right not to relinquish it to the LEO, then I'm not going to.

    *By the way, this hasn't happened to me recently, I was just thinking about the time last May when a Richmond LEO took my shotgun away from me when I was OC'ing with it (walking it from the car to the apartment, about 1-2 blocks), and threatened me with felony charges. Just want to make sure that I can refuse and stand up for myself without breaking the law.
    In Virginia we would never just walk up and take it from you. If you were reported or observed to have it concealed weaponwe would need to verify you were legal. Keeping in mind that you could be in violation of the law we can legally detain you until we determine otherwise.

    If you are out OC and minding your own business... You are legal. But we may still need to speak with you. For those guys that just turned 21... We may want to verify your age.

    We may need to hold your gun till you were released and then return it to you. Please keep in mind that we do not know you. We have no idea if you are wanted or just committed a crime. We need to protect ourselves and the public.

    To disregard a LEO command while packing a gun is a real bad idea!!! We need your cooperation and the lack of it tells us that you are trouble. You could get hit with a taser orshot and killed. We do not want this.

    If you are legal and cooperative your contact with us will be only as long as it takes to review your ID. If you choose otherwise.... You will be with us for a while.

    If you began to fight the LEO... your would be charged with a felony!!

    I hope this helps answer some questions

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    LEO229,
    Just a point of law: A citizen of VA need only be 18 (an adult) to carry openly, assuming he or she is legal to own the pistol in the first place. A person needs to be 21 only to purchase a pistol from an FFL dealer. If an 18 year old bought the gun privately, it is legal for that person to carry openly.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    In Virginia we would never just walk up and take it from you. If you were reported or observed to have it concealed weaponwe would need to verify you were legal. Keeping in mind that you could be in violation of the law we can legally detain you until we determine otherwise.

    If you are out OC and minding your own business... You are legal. But we may still need to speak with you. For those guys that just turned 21... We may want to verify your age.

    We may need to hold your gun till you were released and then return it to you. Please keep in mind that we do not know you. We have no idea if you are wanted or just committed a crime. We need to protect ourselves and the public.

    To disregard a LEO command while packing a gun is a real bad idea!!! We need your cooperation and the lack of it tells us that you are trouble. You could get hit with a taser orshot and killed. We do not want this.

    If you are legal and cooperative your contact with us will be only as long as it takes to review your ID. If you choose otherwise.... You will be with us for a while.

    If you began to fight the LEO... your would be charged with a felony!!

    I hope this helps answer some questions
    LEO - welcome to OCDO. I've read most of the posts you've written since you got here, and although I do not always agree, I respect the manner in which you present your thoughts. That being said, I'd like to pick your brain a little, if I may. I don't like to present hypothetical scenarios, but this is a slightly modified version of a situation I could easily find myself in, and I would like to know how at least one LEO would react.

    Let's say I'm walking down a public street in a residential neighborhood, minding my own business, taking an evening stroll, about an hour before sunset. Nothing about the way I'm carrying myself is suspicious. There have been no recent reports of any crimes committed in which the perpetrators in any way resemble me or the way I am dressed. I am, however, openly carrying both an H&K USP45 in a holster, and a Benelli shotgun secured via a quality sling. You are on duty, and happen to drive by and observe me. For the record, there is obviously no question as to whether or not I am over the age of 21. What, if anything would you do?

    Consider the same scenario, but instead of "happening to drive by and see me", someone called to report my presence - no suspicious activity beyond the presence of the weapons, just a "concerned citizen" who wouldn't take "OC in VA is legal" as an answer from dispatch.

    What if instead of early evening, it is 1AM, and I am also carrying a flashlight, which I am using between street lights? (I work night shift, and maintain the same sleep schedule on my days off, but for the purpose of this scenario, you are not aware of this fact.)

    If, in either scenario, you choose to stop and chat, assume that I am polite and courteous, but claim not to be carrying an ID, and decline to volunteer any details about why I am there, where I am going, or why I am armed. How would you handle the situation, and why?

    I'm just looking for a current LEO's opinion on this. If you'd rather not answer, no problem.

  25. #25
    Desertdoc
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    i have a couple of questions. I thought you where not allowed to open carry a long gun. Also this is a great chance to see how LEO responses to Dutch. Most LEO's that i know also think that you must be 21. After some review i have had two of them come back and say " hey i looked into that age thing.... and you know.. your right. I never knew that... but hell im still learning something new everyday". When you stop learning.. you stop living.

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