Can a LEO disarm you for no reason?

imported post

rabbit994 wrote:

If you're talking about magazine restrictions, there are no magazine restrictions for ownership. There is open carry ban of pistols and rifles that hold over 20 rounds in urban areas along with threaded barrels.

Click to expand...

...if you are "(i) in any city with a population of 160,000 or more or (ii) in any county having an urban county executive form of government or any county or city surrounded thereby or adjacent thereto or in any county having a county manager form of government." (VA Code, § 18.2-287.4), and if you don't have a CHP.

If either of these is not true, then no restriction exists. You can legally carry an AR-15 with a 90-round drum in downtown Newport News if you have a CHP, and you can carry the same weapon in Piney River without a CHP and be legal.

imported post

mercutio545 wrote:

For instance, if I was out shopping and walked past one and he told me to give him the weapon, could I say no and refuse? I know that it would be less trouble just to give it to him and get it sorted out, but if it's my right not to relinquish it to the LEO, then I'm not going to.

*By the way, this hasn't happened to me recently, I was just thinking about the time last May when a Richmond LEO took my shotgun away from me when I was OC'ing with it (walking it from the car to the apartment, about 1-2 blocks), and threatened me with felony charges. Just want to make sure that I can refuse and stand up for myself without breaking the law.

Click to expand...

In Virginia we would never just walk up and take it from you. If you were reported or observed to have it concealed weaponwe would need to verify you were legal. Keeping in mind that you could be in violation of the law we can legally detain you until we determine otherwise.

If you are out OC and minding your own business... You are legal. But we may still need to speak with you. For those guys that just turned 21... We may want to verify your age.

We may need to hold your gun till you were released and then return it to you. Please keep in mind that we do not know you. We have no idea if you are wanted or just committed a crime. We need to protect ourselves and the public.

To disregard a LEO command while packing a gun is a real bad idea!!! We need your cooperation and the lack of it tells us that you are trouble. You could get hit with a taser orshot and killed. We do not want this.

If you are legal and cooperative your contact with us will be only as long as it takes to review your ID. If you choose otherwise.... You will be with us for a while.

If you began to fight the LEO... your would be charged with a felony!!

I hope this helps answer some questions

imported post

LEO229,
Just a point of law: A citizen of VA need only be 18 (an adult) to carry openly, assuming he or she is legal to own the pistol in the first place. A person needs to be 21 only to purchase a pistol from an FFL dealer. If an 18 year old bought the gun privately, it is legal for that person to carry openly.

imported post

LEO 229 wrote:

In Virginia we would never just walk up and take it from you. If you were reported or observed to have it concealed weaponwe would need to verify you were legal. Keeping in mind that you could be in violation of the law we can legally detain you until we determine otherwise.

If you are out OC and minding your own business... You are legal. But we may still need to speak with you. For those guys that just turned 21... We may want to verify your age.

We may need to hold your gun till you were released and then return it to you. Please keep in mind that we do not know you. We have no idea if you are wanted or just committed a crime. We need to protect ourselves and the public.

To disregard a LEO command while packing a gun is a real bad idea!!! We need your cooperation and the lack of it tells us that you are trouble. You could get hit with a taser orshot and killed. We do not want this.

If you are legal and cooperative your contact with us will be only as long as it takes to review your ID. If you choose otherwise.... You will be with us for a while.

If you began to fight the LEO... your would be charged with a felony!!

I hope this helps answer some questions

Click to expand...

LEO - welcome to OCDO. I've read most of the posts you've written since you got here, and although I do not always agree, I respect the manner in which you present your thoughts. That being said, I'd like to pick your brain a little, if I may. I don't like to present hypothetical scenarios, but this is a slightly modified version of a situation I could easily find myself in, and I would like to know how at least one LEO would react.

Let's say I'm walking down a public street in a residential neighborhood, minding my own business, taking an evening stroll, about an hour before sunset. Nothing about the way I'm carrying myself is suspicious. There have been no recent reports of any crimes committed in which the perpetrators in any way resemble me or the way I am dressed. I am, however, openly carrying both an H&K USP45 in a holster, and a Benelli shotgun secured via a quality sling. You are on duty, and happen to drive by and observe me. For the record, there is obviously no question as to whether or not I am over the age of 21. What, if anything would you do?

Consider the same scenario, but instead of "happening to drive by and see me", someone called to report my presence - no suspicious activity beyond the presence of the weapons, just a "concerned citizen" who wouldn't take "OC in VA is legal" as an answer from dispatch.

What if instead of early evening, it is 1AM, and I am also carrying a flashlight, which I am using between street lights? (I work night shift, and maintain the same sleep schedule on my days off, but for the purpose of this scenario, you are not aware of this fact.)

If, in either scenario, you choose to stop and chat, assume that I am polite and courteous, but claim not to be carrying an ID, and decline to volunteer any details about why I am there, where I am going, or why I am armed. How would you handle the situation, and why?

I'm just looking for a current LEO's opinion on this. If you'd rather not answer, no problem.

imported post

i have a couple of questions. I thought you where not allowed to open carry a long gun. Also this is a great chance to see how LEO responses to Dutch. Most LEO's that i know also think that you must be 21. After some review i have had two of them come back and say " hey i looked into that age thing.... and you know.. your right. I never knew that... but hell im still learning something new everyday". When you stop learning.. you stop living.

imported post

LEO 229 wrote:

In Virginia we would never just walk up and take it from you. If you were reported or observed to have it concealed weaponwe would need to verify you were legal. Keeping in mind that you could be in violation of the law we can legally detain you until we determine otherwise.

If you are out OC and minding your own business... You are legal. But we may still need to speak with you. For those guys that just turned 21... We may want to verify your age.

We may need to hold your gun till you were released and then return it to you. Please keep in mind that we do not know you. We have no idea if you are wanted or just committed a crime. We need to protect ourselves and the public.

To disregard a LEO command while packing a gun is a real bad idea!!! We need your cooperation and the lack of it tells us that you are trouble. You could get hit with a taser orshot and killed. We do not want this.

If you are legal and cooperative your contact with us will be only as long as it takes to review your ID. If you choose otherwise.... You will be with us for a while.

If you began to fight the LEO... your would be charged with a felony!!

I hope this helps answer some questions

Click to expand...

Houston, we have a problem . . . in VA like most states, it's 18 to carry openly. Even though most gun owners will willingly chat with police, no citizen has an obligation to speak or to show ID to police, or even carry ID when open carrying. The idea that lack of cooperation = taser time indicates that this is not a VA LEO speaking - maybe a Jack Bauer wannabe. As the VA AG has opined, the police may not detain or arrest a person merely because they refuse to identify themseves. And no, police cannot detain people indefinitley just b/c someone "could be in violation of the law."

Having said all that, all the usual rules of police power apply in VA even if it involves an open carrier:

For legitimate reasonable suspicion of criminal activity (not just making people "feel comfortable") police may briefly detain & pat down under Terry.

But mere open carry does not = Terry grounds as has been discussed often on this board.

For legitimate probable cause, police may seek a warrant for an arrest. And for crimes committed in the presence of an LEO, police may issue a summons for misdemeanors, and make a custodial arrest for felonies; arrests for misdemeanors are limited by statute in VA to 5 exceptions, and under the VA Supreme Court cases of Lovelace and Moore, the VA courts will toss out any evidence obtained in a search incident to unlawful custodial arrest. But in a lawful arrest, a person may be searched pursuant to judge made law - an exception to fourth Amendment - for "officer safety." See Knowles.