Justifying open carry in all jurisdictions and this ridiculous CCW form

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I want to get a CCW as to justify my open carry (and of course concealed carry) in all jurisdictions. I have a form for the county I reside in (which I do not know to be a form standard to all counties) that has fields for information about place-of-employement and asks for two references.

What I do know about some states, if not PA, is that jurisdictions can vary on their approach (example: some can require fingerprints). Nothing in the 6111 statute on licensing, as far as I see, requires any of this. It appears to be implemented as part of the "of sound mind and not of character or reputation to cause public harm" clause.

Has anyone had success, with a form requiring these, via omission, or should I take my business to a different county? Unfortunately, I cannot find any other county's forms on the Internet!

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Pwning the Papacy wrote:

What I do know about some states, if not PA, is that jurisdictions can vary on their approach (example: some can require fingerprints). Nothing in the 6111 statute on licensing, as far as I see, requires any of this. It appears to be implemented as part of the "of sound mind and not of character or reputation to cause public harm" clause.

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You appear to be a PA non-resident - try applying thru Centre County.

But in PA, no fingerpritning is required - the only jurisdiction allegedly trying to require fingerprints is Philadelphia - somebody needs to tell them no.

What locality are you refering to?

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Nah, I'm a PA resident, residing in Centre County, but I'm hardly interested in inputting frivilous data and I do believe I have the choice to go outside of my resident county to get the permit if I desire.

It's just easier, given the form online, to do it in this county.

http://county.centreconnect.org/sheriff/license_to_carry.pdf

Fingerprinting was just an example of a municipality's apparent choice to execute the law in one manner different to another's.

Perhaps if the max waiting period wasn't 45 days, I'd just try it with omissions.

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Pwning the Papacy wrote:

Nah, I'm a PA resident, residing in Centre County, but I'm hardly interested in inputting frivilous data and I do believe I have the choice to go outside of my resident county to get the permit if I desire.

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No. "An individual who is 21 years of age or older may apply to a sheriff for a license to carry a firearm concealed on or about his person or in a vehicle within this Commonwealth. If the applicant is a resident of this Commonwealth, he shall [emphasis added]make application with the sheriff of the county in which he resides or, if a resident of a city of the first class, with the chief of police of that city." Pa.C.S§ 6109(b) ("Licenses").

Remeber though - disclosure of your SSN upon the LTCF application is NOT REQUIRED. Make sure you write somthing in that block though so no bureaucrat does - like, write "Not disclosed, if any."

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Mike wrote:

Pwning the Papacy wrote:

Nah, I'm a PA resident, residing in Centre County, but I'm hardly interested in inputting frivilous data and I do believe I have the choice to go outside of my resident county to get the permit if I desire.

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No. "An individual who is 21 years of age or older may apply to a sheriff for a license to carry a firearm concealed on or about his person or in a vehicle within this Commonwealth. If the applicant is a resident of this Commonwealth, he shall [emphasis added]make application with the sheriff of the county in which he resides or, if a resident of a city of the first class, with the chief of police of that city." Pa.C.S§ 6109(b) ("Licenses").

Remeber though - disclosure of your SSN upon the LTCF application is NOT REQUIRED. Make sure you write somthing in that block though so no bureaucrat does - like, write "Not disclosed, if any."

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I already know I don't have to disclose the SSN based on the ruling from February, but I would like to know further about these other fields.

(c) Form of application and content.--The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section. Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police.

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Blarg. Sorry to waste time with this topic. I guess I will just consider my rights violated and do what other Americans do about it...

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I'd just go through with Centre County's if I were you.As far as I can tell it's the place to go with the least hassles**. I'm in Wisconsin and I had my PA license from Centre Countyin my hands in less than a week. I have CC permits from FL and MN too, and they were more work, time and $$ to get. Both those states cost $100 or more, PA is a deal at $20+. Florida required fingerprinting and a copy of my DD214 from the Army. MN required that I take a class (although I'm not complaining about that-- being armed with knowledge is an important way of being armed too!)and I had to apply in person at a MN sherriff's office. Florida's permit took about 6 weeks, if I recall, and Minnesotatook pretty muchthe full 30 days it was allowed. Florida has better reciprocity, but PA's is better than Minnesota. Any one of these states is a million times better than WI which has no CC. Of course Vermont is still the best!

** I picked Centre County almost randomly. I found a list on the Internet showing the number of permits issued and number turned down by county in PA. Centre County stood out for having issued many with relatively few refusals. Later I learned that the Sheriff (Denny Nau) has a reputation for being friendly to CC. The PA permit was but a slip of paper that they typed my name and address on (including using wite-out on it) and scotch-taped my photo on it. Your twenty-six dollars isn't going to buy you a fancy laminated permit. But, so what?

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Pwning the Papacy wrote:

(c) Form of application and content.--The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section. Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police.

Blarg. Sorry to waste time with this topic. I guess I will just consider my rights violated and do what other Americans do about it...

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All you have to do is fill out the PA State Police application. If Centre County has an extra form, you could always refuse to fill it out and see what happens - I don't think they will deny you as they have no power to make you fill out extra forms.

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Centre County is highly prefered for non-residents due to Sheriff Nau's policy on issuing.

With you being a resident of Centre County, I cant see Denny Nau impossing any additional criteria like Philly tries to do. Even if he did try, you could lawfully decline such due to PA's law completely outlines what is required.

Every LTCF form I've ever seen had at least two references required, some even had three.

I cant recall of anyone having had one of their references called. None of the references of my friends, relatives, myself or any other person had ever been contacted. ..but, we all live in Jefferson, Clearfield, Elk and Clarion counties.

The Deputy that took my application in Jefferson looked my form over, made the background check call, told me to stand against the wall then took my picture. 1 minute later my LTCF was printed out and he said "That will be $25." $$ and LTCF changed hands and he then wished me a good day, I wished the same to him. ..Out the door I went.

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If you're a Centre County resident, you have no choice but to deal with the Centre County Sheriff. You cannot go to another county.

The form used by the Sheriff's Office is a standard, PSP-designed form. The same form is used statewide. And, once your LTCF is issued, it, too, is good statewide.

As for using the LTCF to "justify" openly carrying your handgun, no license is required for open carry throughout the Commonwealth, just for concealed carry and carrying in your automobile (not counting Philadelphia, of course).

Fingerprints? Not required by law.

Additional statements by personal references? Not required by law.

Doctor's statement? Not required by law.

Military discharge papers? Not required by law.

Social Security Number? Not required by Stollenwerk v. Miller,2006 WL 463393 (E.D.Pa. 2006).

My experience with Indiana County was relatively painless, not unlike a previous poster's experience with Jefferson County.

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But can somebody in Philadelphia please challenge their bogus fingerprinting requirement before it spreads like a disease?

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Unfortunately, Mike, people are more interested in not making waves and trying to get their permit than plunking down the filing fee to challenge it in the Court of Common Pleas.

-Lonnie

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But the fee is nominal, and, a good chance that Philadelphia would issue the LTCF anyway.