Firearms + Work

Tess · Dec 28, 2006

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357luvr - thanks for the link. I'm ordering them for both our cars tonight.

I start a new job on the 15th, and while I can't carry in the building, for a change I can carry to and from. This is the best solution I've seen for what to do the other 8 hours.

MarinesWife · Mar 22, 2007

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I dont think any place allows its employees to carry WHILE working but Im sure they would be fine ifyou were to carry while not on the clock

kparker · Mar 22, 2007

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Marineswife,

I dont think any place allows its employees to carry WHILE working

There's actually lots of places that simply don't say, one way or the other.

Rescue · Mar 22, 2007

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paramedic70002 wrote:

I work EMS 911 in a rural environment, day shift only. My employer (I am a contracted employee) has 2 firearms related policies. 1: No firearms on company property (I do not work on company property). 2. No acts of violence (self defense would probably be considered an act of violence). So, I can carry a firearm but not use it? Luckily I don't work nights, and we have very few "bad neighborhoods", so I feel safe to a point, but we all know that violence can happen anytime, and is more likely in an EMSsituation. Then there is the concern that a rowdy patient or bystander could see or access my weapon while I am working over, or restraining someone. Definitely would call for deep concealment. On the plis side, the Chief of the volunteer department where I work has told me that I can carry if I want, I just do not want to go to my boss for clarification.

Just clarifying, are you a medic in VA? I have been told and I read somewhere where EMS providers are prohibited from carrying a firearm on an ambulance in the Commonwealth unless they're a sworn LEO. I'll try to look the code up. If you are in VA I would look into it prior to carrying, regardless of a chief's blessing.

coltcarrier · Mar 22, 2007

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My sister-in-law is volunteer rescue sqad and is looking at getting her permit. I looked up the code preventing from carry in an EMS vehicle for her just this afternoon.

12VAC5-31-700. EMS vehicle safety.
6. Possession of a firearm, weapon, or explosive or incendiary device on any EMS vehicle is prohibited, except:
a. A sworn law-enforcement officer authorized to carry a concealed weapon pursuant to §18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.
b. Any rescue line gun or other rescue device powered by an explosive charge carried on a nontransport response vehicle.

sitedzn · Mar 23, 2007

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MarinesWife wrote:

I dont think any place allows its employees to carry WHILE working but Im sure they would be fine ifyou were to carry while not on the clock

i do, everyday. but then again, i sit behind a pc all day.

67GT390FB · Mar 23, 2007

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MarinesWife wrote:

I dont think any place allows its employees to carry WHILE working but Im sure they would be fine ifyou were to carry while not on the clock

i work for a small engineering firm the owners officein hishome houses his gun cabinet. we've actually stopped work early a time or two and sighted in his blackpowder rifle before hunting season. I have my own office in Richmond so what i carry and when is up to me. I know you were refering to a larger corporate setting so this really doesn't count.

joe

72Malibu · Mar 23, 2007

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I can't carry where I work either. It's prohibited in the building or on the premises anywhere.

I do feel safe where I work since I get along with everybody. I don't feel safe once I leave the property in my half hour commute. So, some days (not every day) I carry and leave it in the vehicle. It's breaking company rules, but like it's been said, I'd rather be fired and alive than hired and dead.

There have been fights and at least one shooting that I know of at my work (Love triangle I think) where a guy was shot with a .22 rifle... yes a RIFLE, not a concealed handgun or anything small, a RIFLE. And another guy was attacked with a knife. That was all before I got here. I've been here 3 years and not another incident.

I do wish they would permit them in vehicles on the property if they wouldn't inside the building. We don't deal with customers who walk in that we don't know (it's not retail), so there's a little less risk.

possumboy · Mar 23, 2007

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I carry when I go to thelocal office and leave it in the car. We only rent office space so they cannot tell me not to have it in the car. They do not own where I park.

There have been a few time that I was in the area and got a call after hours. I told them if they wanted me to stop by, my gun was coming with me. Everyone at work knows I have a gun on me if I'm not at work.

I am working out of DC now in a federal building so I don't carry. I may get the safe back in the car to lock it up for my commute into and out of work, but I don't like being an hour away from my car for 10 hours with my gun in it. I normally leave it at home during this time.

OH, and I in no way feel safe in DC. Maybe in the building where I work, but not in DC.

ET · Mar 23, 2007

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coltcarrier wrote:

My sister-in-law is volunteer rescue sqad and is looking at getting her permit. I looked up the code preventing from carry in an EMS vehicle for her just this afternoon.

12VAC5-31-700. EMS vehicle safety.
6. Possession of a firearm, weapon, or explosive or incendiary device on any EMS vehicle is prohibited, except:
a. A sworn law-enforcement officer authorized to carry a concealed weapon pursuant to §18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.
b. Any rescue line gun or other rescue device powered by an explosive charge carried on a nontransport response vehicle.

This appears in the Administrative Code section, which seems to make it a rule of the department of health. I'm not really sure what that means though. Is it actually a law, and if so what is the penalty for violating it? The reason I ask is that a year or so ago I found a version of this on the VDH website in something called the "Compliance Manual." This lists each of the regulations and next to it there is a "Compliance Statement" with notes. The current version of this can be found at:

http://www.vdh.state.va.us/OEMS/Compliance_Manual/ComplianceManual.asp

You won't find any mention of number 6 there now, but a year ago it had this next to it in the "Compliance Statement" section:

Compliance Statement should be: Because an original regulation
addressing this issue was not promulgated, the agency will request that
this section be repealed. Enforcement of A and B will be suspended.

So, what is the status of carrying in an ambulance? If it is prohibited, shouldn't it be a part of the regular code?

coltcarrier · Mar 23, 2007

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I haven't been able to figure out this myself... it is my understanding that most stations prevent it because of liability and this section in the VAC. I really don't understand how the VAC and Code of VA interrelate. I haven't found what the penalty would be for carry in an EMS.

Maybe I'm just blind...

Rescue · Mar 23, 2007

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* I just searched the Code of VA website and on the table of contents it has VA Administrative Code and next to it says State Agency Rules and next to Code of VA it says Statutory Law. Here is the website: http://leg1.state.va.us/lis.htm
You can click on the links for VAC but it doesn't provide much info about its relation to the Code of VA.

I'm sure that if an EMS provider violated this rule they could be issued a citation from OEMS and maybe more depending on the nature.

I know that my one squad doesn't prohibit firearms in the station due to the fact that its a local government building, I'm not sure about the other since it is considered private property (owned by the squad and not the locality).

On another note: I remember talking with a former chief of mine who is an LEO and he said that it used to be that no one was permitted to carry on an ambulance and the exception for sworn LEOs was later made.

mlands · Mar 23, 2007

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I can't hardly wait until I retire from the county next year so I can be my own boss and carry all the time.

Tess · Mar 24, 2007

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12VAC5-31-700. EMS vehicle safety.
6. Possession of a firearm, weapon, or explosive or incendiary device on any EMS vehicle is prohibited, except:
a. A sworn law-enforcement officer authorized to carry a concealed weapon pursuant to §18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.
b. Any rescue line gun or other rescue device powered by an explosive charge carried on a nontransport response vehicle.

So if you're in an accident, what do they do with your weapon before they transport you?

LEO 229 · Mar 24, 2007

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I dislike the fact that employers will deny you the right to carry while employed. I understand that it is to protect the company first and foremost!! You do have the choice to work for someone else so.. I guess it is OK.

But when your not "on the job" and walking too and from your car... you should be allowed to be armed unless..... your in a secure building with a metal detector. Then you know that nobody inside "should" be secretly armed.

But if it is only a policy that you cannot be armed and nobody is checking... you never know who could be armed. Then.... if a terminated employee decides to come back and shoot up the office... does he care about the policy? If actually does not apply to him anymore.

NytoVa · Mar 24, 2007

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Tess wrote:

So if you're in an accident, what do they do with your weapon before they transport you?

I simply secure the weapon. If in the ambulance, I lock it in the drug cabinet. If outside the ambulance, I may/may not unload it and put it in my pocket or jump bag. If a crime scene, leave it where it is. If anLEO is nearby, give it to them.

From the mar/april issue of "Response", a Tidewater EMS Council publication.

Pistol Packin’ Patient

EMS may encounter patients who are legally carrying handguns. How should you handle these patients?

[align=left]1. Know the rules of EMS gun safety.[/align]

[align=left]• Guns are always loaded.[/align]

[align=left]• Never point the gun at something you are not willing to destroy.[/align]

[align=left]• Keep your finger off the trigger at all times.[/align]

[align=left]2. Nobody will be injured by a handgun unless multiple rules are violated.[/align]

[align=left]3. If the handgun is holstered, leave it there. This is the safest method. Cut the holster away if necessary.[/align]

[align=left]4. Lock the handgun in a pistol case. Secure the case in a locking cabinet.[/align]

[align=left]5. At the ED, give the handgun to security, and get a receipt.[/align]

[align=left]If you are being threatening with a handgun, and cannot retreat:[/align]

[align=left]1. Try to keep the handgun in the holster.[/align]

[align=left]2. If you are struggling for control, grip the handgun tightly around it’s center and keep it pointed in a safe direction.[/align]

[align=left]3. Forcefully rotate the handgun away from the thumb to break the hold.
[/align]

[align=left]4. You are in a fight for your life. All levels of force are legally justified to prevent firearm assaults. [/align]

[align=left][/align]

OBXMIKE · Mar 24, 2007

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We have several folks here who carry. We're open late some nights (retail car biz) and the back part of the parking lot is quite dark. Also, not the best of neighborhoods right over the fence . :uhoh: Outside of petty theft and the occasional stolen car, things stay pretty quiet, but I'd sure hate to be the fool that comes in here with nefarious intentions........we have the showroom covered from ALL angles!

SIGarmed229 · Mar 24, 2007

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The only self-defense item I can carry with me at work is my kershaw.

coltcarrier · Mar 27, 2007

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ET wrote:

that a year or so ago I found a version of this on the VDH website in something called the "Compliance Manual." This lists each of the regulations and next to it there is a "Compliance Statement" with notes. The current version of this can be found at:

http://www.vdh.state.va.us/OEMS/Compliance_Manual/ComplianceManual.asp

You won't find any mention of number 6 there now, but a year ago it had this next to it in the "Compliance Statement" section:

on the VDH website, they now show their regulations including #6
VDH -> Office of Emergency Medical Services->Regulations pages 49-50 (12 VAC 5-31-700. EMS vehicle safety)

again, I haven't been able to get a clear answer on the true impact of the VAC. When I look at it, I simply see state agency rules. Does this have the same impact as my Employee Handbook? Or does the VAC have force of law behind any violations?

BobCav · Mar 27, 2007

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SIGarmed229 wrote:

The only self-defense item I can carry with me at work is my kershaw.

Dude, that would keep me away! Do you OC or CC him?

(Sammy Kershaw)

Firearms + Work

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