• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

I dunno...what you guys think about this?

F

FreeorDie

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
91
Location
America, ,
imported post

Really am curious what has transpired here...

Did you get your lawer?

What is the status of this whole thing?
 
P

ProguninTN

Regular Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
416
Location
, Tennessee, USA
imported post

molonlabetn wrote:
Steve in PA wrote:
It wouldn't be false arrest, because the LEO's thought the arrest was good.

It will more likely fall into a civil rights issue with the basis being they SHOULD have known what the law was.
Click to expand...


Since when is ignorance a defense?

Or, hypothetically, what if a police officer has a 'vision from god' in the middle ofhis shift in which he is instructed by the voices to forcibly enter your home and arrest you for owning a gun because it's 'not right'? Would that not be kidnapping? A false arrest consists of "unlawful restraint of a person’s liberty without proper legal authority". It doesn't matter what the police officer 'thought' was true... Only what he canarticulate with regard to the law.

http://www.answers.com/topic/kidnapping

If police officers can legitimatelyarrest people for breaking laws which only exist in their own minds, there is a SERIOUS problem!

molonlabetn
Click to expand...


I would also like to know what the current status of the situation. On a another note, I agree with molonlabetn and do not believe this to be a "good faith" exception. Perons are legally presumed to know the law, and officers are legally presumed to know the law which they are enforcing. Therefore, at the least I would seek an apology and an expungement of the record.

ProguninTN
 
jahwarrior

jahwarrior

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
393
Location
, ,
imported post

i think you could have reacted and interacted a bit more rationally with the officers. even if their behavior was rude and unprofessional, doesn't mean you have to follow suite. if you reacted as emotionally as i read your story (forgive me if i read it wrong), if i were LEO, i might have given you a hard time too. just my 2 cents.
 
D

dynasty123

New member
Joined
Dec 12, 2006
Messages
8
Location
, ,
imported post

vermonter wrote:
I think they violated your rights. The cops in Vermont wouldn't dare do that. However based on your grammar and bad language (you sound like a hoodlum/wanna be/Yo Yo Yo hip-hopper) a couple of good ole boys (Vermont Rednecks) would probably pay you a visit to inform you that wannabe's are not welcome in Vermont!
Click to expand...


I think the cops would give me a harder time... giving my color and everything (sorry to make this sound racist, but I had some bad experiences with being in Vermont because of the "rednecks" there and a CPO that came from Vermont in which I couldn't stand... but that's another issue. And I an NOT a "Yo Yo Yo hip-hopper", I am a individual who likes hip-hop, but that doesn'ttellanybody to stereotype me, so you can take the comment and jam it in your Vermonanite ass! :-D
 
C

cas

New member
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
3
Location
, ,
imported post

My only question is why did you let them in your house ?
 
B

bradjc72

New member
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
9
Location
Eastern state, Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

what a tool you are. It is people like you that make it difficult for the rest of us, and you should not be owning a gun with an attitiude like that. Your a danger to the rest of us, and I am glad that the LEO's did what they did, and embarrass you. Just look at the stupid paragraph you put through, and the way you talk (do it) unless your embarrassed to see how you write, and then look at the way everyone else wrote in responses to your statement. Gees, people who carry are suppossed to be respectable, moreso than anyone else because of the responsibility that we accepted to be weapons carriers. Settle down when others get criticle of your statement, and I hope the next time you get your weapons taken from you. God you make it frustrating for the rest of us trying to abide by the laws, and be responsible citizens.



:banghead:
 
R

Reverend73

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
549
Location
Gainesville, VA
imported post

bradjc72 wrote:
what a tool you are. It is people like you that make it difficult for the rest of us, and you should not be owning a gun with an attitiude like that. Your a danger to the rest of us, and I am glad that the LEO's did what they did, and embarrass you. Just look at the stupid paragraph you put through, and the way you talk (do it) unless your embarrassed to see how you write, and then look at the way everyone else wrote in responses to your statement. Gees, people who carry are suppossed to be respectable, moreso than anyone else because of the responsibility that we accepted to be weapons carriers. Settle down when others get criticle of your statement, and I hope the next time you get your weapons taken from you. God you make it frustrating for the rest of us trying to abide by the laws, and be responsible citizens.



:banghead:
Click to expand...
I dont see where the 2A says anything about how someone should talk while carrying a firearm. While I do agree that he is trying to sound like a gang banger, that shouldn't matter as far as how he is treated by police or if he should or should not carry a firearm. Get a clue. Shall not be infringed means shall not be infringed.
 
B

bradjc72

New member
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
9
Location
Eastern state, Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

there is nothing wrong with voicing your opposition, but it doesn't have to be with cursing, and yelling. I agree with the fact that LEO's should be well trained in laws, because they are the ones who enforce them, and to wrongfully accuse someone is the wrong thing to do, so I feel for the situation as a whole. Unless this guy is lying about what he did, what he said, and how he went about it, I believe that he went about it totally wrong. It IS guys like this that make it more and more difficult for the pro gun politicians to keep fighting with the other side, when we as a pro gun community keep doing stupid crap like this to make it easier for the other side. That is what I am saying.
 
L

LoveMyCountry

State Researcher
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
590
Location
Ocean Shores, WA
imported post

Reverend73 wrote:
bradjc72 wrote:
what a tool you are. It is people like you that make it difficult for the rest of us, and you should not be owning a gun with an attitiude like that. Your a danger to the rest of us, and I am glad that the LEO's did what they did, and embarrass you. Just look at the stupid paragraph you put through, and the way you talk (do it) unless your embarrassed to see how you write, and then look at the way everyone else wrote in responses to your statement. Gees, people who carry are suppossed to be respectable, moreso than anyone else because of the responsibility that we accepted to be weapons carriers. Settle down when others get criticle of your statement, and I hope the next time you get your weapons taken from you. God you make it frustrating for the rest of us trying to abide by the laws, and be responsible citizens.



:banghead:
Click to expand...
I dont see where the 2A says anything about how someone should talk while carrying a firearm. While I do agree that he is trying to sound like a gang banger, that shouldn't matter as far as how he is treated by police or if he should or should not carry a firearm. Get a clue. Shall not be infringed means shall not be infringed.
Click to expand...
Rev, I totallyagree. While the OP used language that would offend folks in my part of the world, it may be how they talk in his part of the world. New Yorkers can use the F-word5 different ways... in the same sentence! :p They still have the right to say what they like.

Either we all have rights or none of us do.

LoveMyCountry
 
D

dynasty123

New member
Joined
Dec 12, 2006
Messages
8
Location
, ,
imported post

Ok, so some of the people who view this forum do not like the tone of my language....AND? It's a free country last timeI checked! Not to say that criticism of my actions is not allowed-the same thing goes for you guys :-D. Criticize me all you want, but I still OC.I spent 4 of my years defending it in the Navy and had to put up with that racist-assed Chief Petty Officer from Vermont for 4 years, so the comments that's said about me is null and void (really, it is). I still OC in my neighborhood and I dare anybody to tell me that I can't just because of the color of my skin or any other factor that's not any law books. That shit died a long time ago.I do not want to turn this into a flame war. This is NOT the reason whyI posted. Have a nice day :-D
 
D

dynasty123

New member
Joined
Dec 12, 2006
Messages
8
Location
, ,
imported post

Oh yeah, BTW... if ya see a black guy OCing in Reading, it's probably me, so say hi. Talk to me one on one and get to know the realme before the "gang-banger" stereotype creeps in your mind. All youngAfrican-American people who own guns and swearare not gangbangers.And besides, with the racial profiling in Reading (Don't EVEN contest me if your not a part of the profiling criteria...I've seen it and beena part of it), I was confronted by the police in the fashion that it wasfor one factor and one factor only. I was a black man with a handgun ina holster walking in Reading, and somehow I was a threat and that's all they cared about. What would you thinkan old white lady woulddo if she seen a young black guy dressed in urban clothingwith a gun on his hip? Grip her purse a little tighter? Really? Racial profilingis still here. Wake up!:banghead:

Did the police speak in a proper tone to me when they confronted me? NO! If they would have, I would have. They should have known the case laws becauseI did and I'm not the police (Doesn't that look bad for them?). I tried to tell them and I tried to show them, but they didn't want to listen. They wanted to lock up a black man with a gun, legal or not. In the end, they were shocked to know thatI knewsome thingsthat I think the entire police department didn't know. They should have listened, instead of taking me and making a wasted trip to City Halljust totake me back to the same place where I got apprehended and get my firearm back. :-D. A cop tell me I "shouldn't" do it? What? :shock:If it's not against the law, I'm doing it, bottom line. Just because one of the members of the hip-hop generation caught on OCing and now you think that the whole thinggonna mess up for the rest of you old fogeys? Wow...a lot of black 21-year-old OCers who listens to hip-hop and speaking "ghetto" language would bea nightmare, wouldn't it? :shock:

Andone lastthing. This is a ******* forum. At leastI spelled my words correctly. Get off of the grammar kick because this is not English Comp 120! (and that was the only swear wordI said in this post. l'm so proud of myself! :-D)
 
L

LoveMyCountry

State Researcher
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
590
Location
Ocean Shores, WA
imported post

dynasty123 wrote:
Oh yeah, BTW... if ya see a black guy OCing in Reading, it's probably me, so say hi. Talk to me one on one and get to know the realme before the "gang-banger" stereotype creeps in your mind. All youngAfrican-American people who own guns and swearare not gangbangers.And besides, with the racial profiling in Reading (Don't EVEN contest me if your not a part of the profiling criteria...I've seen it and beena part of it), I was confronted by the police in the fashion that it wasfor one factor and one factor only. I was a black man with a handgun ina holster walking in Reading, and somehow I was a threat and that's all they cared about. What would you thinkan old white lady woulddo if she seen a young black guy dressed in urban clothingwith a gun on his hip? Grip her purse a little tighter? Really? Racial profilingis still here. Wake up!:banghead:

Did the police speak in a proper tone to me when they confronted me? NO! If they would have, I would have. They should have known the case laws becauseI did and I'm not the police (Doesn't that look bad for them?). I tried to tell them and I tried to show them, but they didn't want to listen. They wanted to lock up a black man with a gun, legal or not. In the end, they were shocked to know thatI knewsome thingsthat I think the entire police department didn't know. They should have listened, instead of taking me and making a wasted trip to City Halljust totake me back to the same place where I got apprehended and get my firearm back. :-D. A cop tell me I "shouldn't" do it? What? :shock:If it's not against the law, I'm doing it, bottom line. Just because one of the members of the hip-hop generation caught on OCing and now you think that the whole thinggonna mess up for the rest of you old fogeys? Wow...a lot of black 21-year-old OCers who listens to hip-hop and speaking "ghetto" language would bea nightmare, wouldn't it? :shock:

Andone lastthing. This is a ******* forum. At leastI spelled my words correctly. Get off of the grammar kick because this is not English Comp 120! (and that was the only swear wordI said in this post. l'm so proud of myself! :-D)
Click to expand...

Ya! What he said! :D

Dynasty123, I live in north Idaho and look like this:


IMG_5797-1.JPG


I wear a black leather jacket with this on the back:

mini-dtom1.jpg


and I open carry a full size stainless 1911. People could assume that I am a some sort of outlaw skinhead biker. Absolutely wrong (although it does help to keep the kids in my Sunday School class in line).:shock:


We can't control what others think sowe need to live our lives they wayWE think it should be.If you should find yourself this far west, give me a shout. We can open carry together and scare everybody.:p

LoveMyCountry
 
D

DAN RAGALLER

New member
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
4
Location
, ,
imported post

BACK AT YOU D,

If you would have talked and acted like a law abiding citizen, and not some -wise ass punk spouting MFs and sh ts and what ever else could come out of your mouth.

But, did the police officers place you under arrest? Did they read you your maranda rights. If they did thier busted, if the didn't thier busted for false imprisonment.


IF YOU GOT THE MONEY AND PLENTY OF IT, YOU'LL NEED IT, GET A LAWYER WHO KNOWS THE UNIFORM FIREARMS ACT.
 
D

DAN RAGALLER

New member
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
4
Location
, ,
imported post

BACK AT YOU D,

If you would have talked and acted like a law abiding citizen, and not some -wise ass punk spouting MFs and sh ts and what ever else could come out of your mouth.

But, did the police officers place you under arrest? Did they read you your maranda rights. If they did thier busted, if the didn't thier busted for false imprisonment.


IF YOU GOT THE MONEY AND PLENTY OF IT, YOU'LL NEED IT, GET A LAWYER WHO KNOWS THE UNIFORM FIREARMS ACT.
 
C

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

dynasty123 wrote:
Ok, so some of the people who view this forum do not like the tone of my language....AND? It's a free country last timeI checked! Not to say that criticism of my actions is not allowed-the same thing goes for you guys :-D. Criticize me all you want, but I still OC.I spent 4 of my years defending it in the Navy and had to put up with that racist-assed Chief Petty Officer from Vermont for 4 years, so the comments that's said about me is null and void (really, it is). I still OC in my neighborhood and I dare anybody to tell me that I can't just because of the color of my skin or any other factor that's not any law books. That shit died a long time ago.I do not want to turn this into a flame war. This is NOT the reason whyI posted. Have a nice day :-D
Click to expand...

The reason they're criticizing the language isn't because they personally disapprove. Trust me. I know some of them personally. They can cuss!

It has to do with how the police react to you, how it escalates a situation. It can dramatically affect your negotiating position later, too. In some jurisdictions, one cuss word aimed at an LEO can get you a disorderly conduct citation. If I understand things correctly, it can, rightly or wrongly, add to their "reasonable suspicion" that you are doing or planning something illegal, something they will definitely be looking for as they work towards probable cause or a "nothing" where they stop bothering you.

Another aspect is how it represents the 2A world. If your main goal is self-defense and only for yourself, great. If you also carry as an ambassador of OC and 2A, you'll get more mileage from your image if you present yourself as calm, cool, knowledgeable, and articulate. Posters to this forum are perhaps assumed to be OC and 2A ambassadors, so I'm guessing they were taking you as one of us. They just want to project a credible image as a group.
 
B

bradjc72

New member
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
9
Location
Eastern state, Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

Alright guys. I can see that a few nights ago, that some of you didnt' seem to like that fact that I think this guy shouldn't have gone about this the way he did. I am all for freedom and everything, I don't want any of that taken away, but I truly think that guys like this is what hurts the overall cause. No, there is anything in the laws that state you should act a certain way, but it is the assumed responsibility that we have to take to be responsible, and levelheaded even when stepped up to like these two LEO's.

Doesn't anyone understand what I am trying to say??? I would not feel safe having this guy standing next to me knowing he has a gun. I am a dedicated NRA member, and all CCW's that I know, (has to be in the hundreds, from everyone I have met) none has ever acted like this.

Let me know if you guys disagree
 
L

LoveMyCountry

State Researcher
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
590
Location
Ocean Shores, WA
imported post

bradjc72 wrote:
Alright guys. I can see that a few nights ago, that some of you didnt' seem to like that fact that I think this guy shouldn't have gone about this the way he did. I am all for freedom and everything, I don't want any of that taken away, but I truly think that guys like this is what hurts the overall cause. No, there is anything in the laws that state you should act a certain way, but it is the assumed responsibility that we have to take to be responsible, and levelheaded even when stepped up to like these two LEO's.

Doesn't anyone understand what I am trying to say??? I would not feel safe having this guy standing next to me knowing he has a gun. I am a dedicated NRA member, and all CCW's that I know, (has to be in the hundreds, from everyone I have met) none has ever acted like this.

Let me know if you guys disagree
Click to expand...
I disagree.

He responded to an assault on his person and his rights by using foul language. So what? I've seen Soccer Moms do worse than that.

The big questions are: What did he do that was dangerous and would his actions have been any safer if he had not cussed?

This man did nothing illegal or unsafe yet he is being condemned for his words. Are you sure that you wouldn't respond in the same way if you were in the same situation?



LoveMyCountry
 
D

DAN RAGALLER

New member
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
4
Location
, ,
imported post

GENTLEMEN,

THE PURPOSE OF MY PREVIOUS REPLY WAS NOT TO INFLAME ANYONE. IF YOU EVER NOTICE HOW PEOPLE IN GENERAL ACT TOWARDS CASUALLY DRESSED OR SUIT AND TIE PEOPLE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN PEOPLE DRESSED IN JEANS OR THE YOUNG FOLKS DRESS. IF EVERDAY FOLKS DISCRIMINATE LIKE THAT WHAT DO YOU THINK A L.E.O. WILL DO. THIER OPINION A EVERYONE IS OF A SUSPICIOUS NATURE.

IT'S HAPPENED TO ME PERSONALLY, AND BY THE SAME COP!! IN SOME AREAS, IF YOU KNOW THE L.E.O.s THAT WON'T DO A DAMN THING TO CHANGE THIER ATTITUDES. SOME COPS A JUST PLAIN ASSHOLES.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top