Firearms policy at ODU

kimbercarrier · Dec 16, 2006

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I'm going to a graduation at ODU sunday and want to know if I can carry concealed or if they ban or use metal detectors to scan you upon entry.Thank you in advance for any and all responses. kimbercarrier.

Mike · Dec 16, 2006

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If ODU is a VA sponsored University, then the AG Opinions at http://www.vcdl.org/pdf/OP-05-078.pdfand http://www.vcdl.org/new/kilgore_opinion.pdfaffirm your universal privilege to carry concealed on college campuses generally.

I would not worry about any gun ban by the University, and would OC after the ceremoney on your way out just to mark some territory for us. A bunch of us OCed at GMU law school at the 2d Amend. Symposium this year - no problems.

SicSemperTyrannis · Dec 16, 2006

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I open carried for two hours while walking aroundcampus - including at a busy dining hall on a Saturday at lunch - at James Madison University about two months ago. Idon't think many folksnoticed or those that did cared, really- but at least one astounded young man did. He did a triple take. I also open carried while shopping at the campus bookstore.

TEX1N · Dec 16, 2006

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Mike beat me to the answer!

Here is the link to the AG's website with opinion 05-078:

http://www.vaag.com/OPINIONS/2006opns/Jan06opnndx.htm

If you would feel more comfortable I would recommend printing off a copy of that webpage and the opinion, and then carry it with you.

One more thing to note: if you are an employee or a student of ODU, then - according to the opinion - the school can take administrative action against you if you break their weapons policy. However if you are not an employee or student, then you have nothing to worry about.

mercutio545 · Dec 16, 2006

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TEX1N wrote:

One more thing to note: if you are an employee or a student of ODU, then - according to the opinion - the school can take administrative action against you if you break their weapons policy. However if you are not an employee or student, then you have nothing to worry about.

Exactly. I'm a student at VCU, and I had to sign an agreement to the University Rules and Procedures when I was a freshman.

This is from the residence hall handbook:

"The use or possession of fireworks, firearms, or other dangerous weapons or material is prohibited. Firearms are defined as any gun, rifle, pistol or handgun designed to fire bullets, BBs, pellets, or shot regardless of propellant used. Firearms, other weapons, or explosives are not allowed on university property (including residence halls) regardless of whether a license to possess the same has been issued. Weapons include, but are not limited to, knives, razors, metal knuckles, blackjacks, hatchets, bows and arrows, nun chankas, foils, or any explosive or incendiary devise."

This is from the Resource Guide:

"Have in his or her possession any firearm, other weapon, or explosive, regardless of whether a license to possess the same has been issued, without the written authorization of the president of the University. This restriction does not apply to persons whose duties lawfully require the possession of firearms or other weapons."

Luckily someone who lives off-campus lets me keep my firearms at their place

. I'm intrigued as to what the president of the University would say if I asked him for permission to carry though. I wonder if anybody has done that before...

Mike · Dec 16, 2006

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mercutio545 wrote:

I'm a student at VCU, and I had to sign an agreement to the University Rules and Procedures when I was a freshman.

This is from the residence hall handbook:

"The use or possession of fireworks, firearms, or other dangerous weapons or material is prohibited. Firearms are defined as any gun, rifle, pistol or handgun designed to fire bullets, BBs, pellets, or shot regardless of propellant used. Firearms, other weapons, or explosives are not allowed on university property (including residence halls) regardless of whether a license to possess the same has been issued. Weapons include, but are not limited to, knives, razors, metal knuckles, blackjacks, hatchets, bows and arrows, nun chankas, foils, or any explosive or incendiary devise."

This is from the Resource Guide:

"Have in his or her possession any firearm, other weapon, or explosive, regardless of whether a license to possess the same has been issued, without the written authorization of the president of the University. This restriction does not apply to persons whose duties lawfully require the possession of firearms or other weapons."

Luckily someone who lives off-campus lets me keep my firearms at their place . I'm intrigued as to what the president of the University would say if I asked him for permission to carry though. I wonder if anybody has done that before...

Try asking - the college AG opinion was written by the appointed AG prior to McDonnel - it is not great for us - compare the State park opinion - much clearer, and I think the logic should control; BTW, no permit holder has ever been expelled by a college for carrying in VA - they know better

vt357 · Dec 16, 2006

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Don't bother trying to carry at VCU - you can't carry whether you are student or not. Carry on VCU campus is specifically prohibited in the state code (8VAC90-10-50). But it is only a trespass charge not a weapons violation.

I have personally been told by the Virginia Tech Police that it is legal to carry on campus - but they will ask you to leave if you open carry. If you don't leave, they will charge you with trespassing b/c supposedly they have the power to ask anyone to leave campus. They told me that if you do carry, do it concealed and you won't have any problems.

Now as to if that policy is legal or not - I do not know. I just graduated from there yesterday. Since I have only been a non-student for 24 hours now I have not yet gotten the chance to test it.

mercutio545 · Dec 16, 2006

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vt357 wrote:

Don't bother trying to carry at VCU - you can't carry whether you are student or not. Carry on VCU campus is specifically prohibited in the state code (8VAC90-10-50). But it is only a trespass charge not a weapons violation.

Yes, I remember reading about that. Interesting how VCU is the only university mentioned, I wonder why that is?

Im curious though, If I happened to get permission from the president (which is probably impossible. My reason would have to be extremely valid- the guy will probably have the "well if I let YOU carry a gun, I'll have to let everybody do it" mindset. I doubt I could even get an appointment with him, or have him read a letter, with all 28,000+ students), allowing me to carry on campus, would that statute in the code of VA override his letter?

Also, while it's only a trespassing charge if you carry on campus, there are still two entities that want to have your ass. You'll get the trespassing charge from the police, then VCU will see to it that you face their judicial board as well (If you're a student, that is). That's why I don't even bother keeping anything in my car (I park in a VCU garage). Technically that's VCU property, but I remember reading something that you can have a firearm in your car on school property, in a parking lot or a traffic circle. But since VCU is specifically mentioned, it's confusing, so I'm just avoiding any trouble at all. Better safe than sorry I guess.

TEX1N · Dec 16, 2006

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vt357 wrote:

Don't bother trying to carry at VCU - you can't carry whether you are student or not. Carry on VCU campus is specifically prohibited in the state code (8VAC90-10-50). But it is only a trespass charge not a weapons violation.

I have personally been told by the Virginia Tech Police that it is legal to carry on campus - but they will ask you to leave if you open carry. If you don't leave, they will charge you with trespassing b/c supposedly they have the power to ask anyone to leave campus. They told me that if you do carry, do it concealed and you won't have any problems.

Now as to if that policy is legal or not - I do not know. I just graduated from there yesterday. Since I have only been a non-student for 24 hours now I have not yet gotten the chance to test it.

vt357, welcome to OCDO. I do not think it would be legal for VT police to ask anyone to leave for open carrying. While the AG opinion only addresses CC, there is nothing that would give the VT police, a direct arm of the state, to ask you to leave when you are not doing anything illegal. I'm not saying they would not try, I'm just saying that it would not be legal, IMO.

mercutio545, to answer your question; no the president could not overrule the VA Code. He would have no authority to do so. I was trying to look up the section in the VA Code concerning VCU and handguns to see how it was worded, but I could not find that statute for the life of me. Does anyone know what section it is in?

jimwyant · Dec 17, 2006

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TEX1N: The Code of Virginia does not prohibit it that I can find. It is also not listed on the State Police website under "Where Unlawful to Carry", but there is a mention of it in the VA Administrative Code:

"8VAC90-10-50. The right to academic freedom and to equal educational and occupational access. The university is committed to providing an environment conducive to academic freedom, free inquiry, and equal access to educational and occupational opportunities. The principle of academic freedom requires all persons to respect another's dignity, to acknowledge another's right to express differing opinions, to cultivate and to cherish intellectual honesty, and to promote freedom of inquiry and expression. It is therefore the policy of the university that no act of any member of the university community shall serve to restrain or inhibit access to opportunities or the exercise of these freedoms. To that end, no person, either singly or in concert with others, shall willfully:

4. Have in his possession any firearm, other weapon, or explosive, regardless of whether a license to possess the same has been issued, without the written authorization of the president of the university. This restriction does not apply to persons whose duties lawfully require the possession of firearms or other weapons."

This would appear to open the possibility mentioned by previous posters that the president of the university could indeed authorize one to carry there, although such authorization would likely be unattainable.

SicSemperTyrannis · Dec 17, 2006

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In 1999, JMU suspended for two semesters a student with a concealed weapons permit for carrying on campus. I worked in the Judicial Affairs Office as a hearing officer at the time for 20 hours a week as part of my graduate program. The student lived in Wamper Hall on the quad, and he was an upperclassmen. The gun was found in his residence hall room.

SicSemperTyrannis · Dec 17, 2006

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I would also love some clarification concerning the "VCU exception", specifically, I would like to read thelegal langauge establishing their special status. I've been told several things - and while I know not to believe everything I hear from a firearms instructor or attorney or police officer, a pro-second amendment attorney I trust told me that if VCU takes your gun as part of a trespassing charge, don't count on ever getting it back.

Can anyone expand on the VCU exception? For example, what about carrying in a car? What about all of VCU's various other properties here and there throughout the city (Theatre Row Building, etc). Does it matter that VCU only leases this building and doesn't own it? Etc Etc.

Mike · Dec 17, 2006

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TEX1N wrote:

While the AG opinion only addresses CC, there is nothing that would give the VT police, a direct arm of the state, to ask you to leave when you are not doing anything illegal.

Read the AG Opinion again - it declares that OC is legal - implying that folks can OC on campus.

TEX1N · Dec 17, 2006

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jimwyant wrote:

TEX1N: The Code of Virginia does not prohibit it that I can find. It is also not listed on the State Police website under "Where Unlawful to Carry", but there is a mention of it in the VA Administrative Code:

That's good to know. I thought I was going crazy when I could not find it in the VA Code. Here is a link to the section that we are talking about: 8VAC90-10-50 I would have to agree that the president might be able to grant an exception. Although I really don't know how the VAC applies to the general public, much less students or employees. Does anyone know how much legal weight the VAC carries against the public in general?

Mike, I guess I missed that sentence in the AG's letter about OC not being illegal. I do agree that it implies that OC is legal on campus, along with stating that CC is legal on campus.

NRA_Bear · Dec 17, 2006

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kimbercarrier wrote:

I'm going to a graduation at ODU sunday and want to know if I can carry concealed or if they ban or use metal detectors to scan you upon entry.Thank you in advance for any and all responses. kimbercarrier.

I was one of those graduates :lol:. FINALLY, I can assert my RTKBA on campus!

mercutio545 · Dec 18, 2006

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Well VCU is going to be buying up pretty much all of downtown (my econ professor said that they were trying to buy up buildings to connect the monroe park campus to MCV), so good luck being able to carry at all in downtown richmond in about 20 years or so. You'd think that with the campus being in such a volatile area, they wouldn't be as strict with firearms. There have been a few assaults on students, in fact, over the past few years. Last year a student got knifed in a VCU parking garage, and we recieved an e-mail about it and how we can be "safe". One of their strategies was to pretend like you're talking on your cell phone if you're being followed. So what, you can throw your phone at the attacker or something?

And if they catch you with pepper spray, you don't get in trouble, but the spray is confiscated. So pretty much you aren't allowed to carry anything. Not even a pocket knife. It's interesting how VCU is disarming their students more and more, and sends out e-mails reporting attacks and how talking on your cell phone will make you safe.

And don't even get me started on the VCU police. Terrible response time. Got stuck in an elevator in the business building last year with 7 people, and it took an hour and a half for an officer to get there to assess the situation.

I think VCU is just turning into another one of those "weapon-free" zones like public schools and some banks. It's just ironic how these places seem to be more frequently involved in violent crimes than places that allow guns. Can't really do anything about it though I suppose. The place where I keep my guns locked up is only like 4 blocks off campus though and I have a key so I can pick them up whenever I want, so it's not too bad...

CRF250rider1000 · Apr 22, 2008

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Darn being a student and not being 21 so I can have a ccw:cuss:
Also, where is it that you are storing your guns off campus you say? A storage place maybe?

dixiehacker · Apr 22, 2008

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Mike wrote:

mercutio545 wrote:

I'm a student at VCU, and I had to sign an agreement to the University Rules and Procedures when I was a freshman.

This is from the residence hall handbook:

"The use or possession of fireworks, firearms, or other dangerous weapons or material is prohibited. Firearms are defined as any gun, rifle, pistol or handgun designed to fire bullets, BBs, pellets, or shot regardless of propellant used. Firearms, other weapons, or explosives are not allowed on university property (including residence halls) regardless of whether a license to possess the same has been issued. Weapons include, but are not limited to, knives, razors, metal knuckles, blackjacks, hatchets, bows and arrows, nun chankas, foils, or any explosive or incendiary devise."

This is from the Resource Guide:

"Have in his or her possession any firearm, other weapon, or explosive, regardless of whether a license to possess the same has been issued, without the written authorization of the president of the University. This restriction does not apply to persons whose duties lawfully require the possession of firearms or other weapons."

Luckily someone who lives off-campus lets me keep my firearms at their place . I'm intrigued as to what the president of the University would say if I asked him for permission to carry though. I wonder if anybody has done that before...

Click to expand...

Try asking - the college AG opinion was written by the appointed AG prior to McDonnel - it is not great for us - compare the State park opinion - much clearer, and I think the logic should control; BTW, no permit holder has ever been expelled by a college for carrying in VA - they know better

What about this case that just happened?

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/154908

CRF250rider1000 · Apr 22, 2008

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Those are the students that make me wish I could CC on campus:what:
A good student always does what he can within the confines of the law and campus laws for that matter IMO.

Neplusultra · Apr 22, 2008

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mercutio545 wrote:

Well VCU is going to be buying up pretty much all of downtown (my econ professor said that they were trying to buy up buildings to connect the monroe park campus to MCV), so good luck being able to carry at all in downtown richmond in about 20 years or so. You'd think that with the campus being in such a volatile area, they wouldn't be as strict with firearms. There have been a few assaults on students, in fact, over the past few years. Last year a student got knifed in a VCU parking garage, and we recieved an e-mail about it and how we can be "safe". One of their strategies was to pretend like you're talking on your cell phone if you're being followed. So what, you can throw your phone at the attacker or something?

And if they catch you with pepper spray, you don't get in trouble, but the spray is confiscated. So pretty much you aren't allowed to carry anything. Not even a pocket knife. It's interesting how VCU is disarming their students more and more, and sends out e-mails reporting attacks and how talking on your cell phone will make you safe.

And don't even get me started on the VCU police. Terrible response time. Got stuck in an elevator in the business building last year with 7 people, and it took an hour and a half for an officer to get there to assess the situation.

I think VCU is just turning into another one of those "weapon-free" zones like public schools and some banks. It's just ironic how these places seem to be more frequently involved in violent crimes than places that allow guns. Can't really do anything about it though I suppose. The place where I keep my guns locked up is only like 4 blocks off campus though and I have a key so I can pick them up whenever I want, so it's not too bad...

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