Disarming anti's

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A couple friends and I had a Wii Tennis & Jenga night (don't ask heh) and I arrived shortly after going to a restaurant for dinner with another friend. I usually always CC, but was forced to OC due to VA's alcohol CC laws. I had an IWB, but forgot to untuck my shirt after dinner, and figured it wouldn't be a problem since most of my friends knew I CC'ed anyways (telling them, they'd never know when I CC'ed unless they asked, and even then I might not be willing to tell them). I hadn't realized I wasn't covered until a friend of mine asked me why I had a gun on my side (I was there for about 30 minutes before anybody really noticed), and the expected question followed. "Why do you need a gun?" That was easy to "defend" (as if I need a defense to excercise my 2nd amendment rights), and the open and healthy debate amongst friends was refreshing and fun. Then I got stumped...

"Don't you think, that by carrying a gun, you put the people (your friends) around you at greater risk should you, lose control of your gun (to a BG), or should a situation arise, escalate the situation by having another gun present (either by drawing, or being discovered by the BG)?"

The first part was somewhat defended by my statement that I choose to CC most of the time unless I legally can't (VA alcohol crap craps ugh.), so being a target of a snatch or being singled out as the first target in a holdup/etc. shouldn't be a concern. The second part was a lot harder, and I don't think I ever truly gave any answers that really satisfied myself.

I carry to protect myself, and the people I hold dear to me, but should I find myself in a situation, I don't know if I would feel right risking the lives of my friends (family? they don't know I CC yet) especially when it's against some of their wishes. In terms of a worst case scenario, I would pull to save my life or a friend's in dire need, but it's hard to rationalize a defense against the worst case scenario where I live to subdue the BG with appropriate force, only to find out that before, or shortly after, that he has fatally wounded the 3rd party present. What could/should have I said tonight, and what do you all have to say? I know there's an answer, but I can't find it right now, so I'm asking the collective opinions of people who I hope share my own feelings. Thanks, and I'd be happy to answer any/all questions you have of me if it'll help further the discussion.

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To the first part of of your friends question I would tell them,'no if anything being armed enhances my safety and that of everyone around me. I practice situational awareness and seek to avoid conflict if at all possible, my pistol is only for use in life or death situations, not to win arguments or be a policeman. Most likely if I have to use my pistol the situation is dire and having been unarmed will not make it better. However, most criminals will avoid armed victims and in the highly unlikely event of a gun grab attempt my holster has retention capabilites and I have trained to resist such an attack.' Thats how I would answer.

I might even say that by being armed is announcing that one will defend themselves and those around them, what are the unarmed saying by being so? If your friend is attacked you can help or save him, if you are attacked your unarmed friend may not be able to do much of anything to help you.

It is also useful to bring up the issue of trust, especially with family. If anyone doesn't trust you while armed, do they really trust you unarmed?

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should I find myself in a situation, I don't know if I would feel right risking the lives of my friends (family?

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:dude:Should I find myself in a situation, I do KNOW that I would not feel right being powerless to defend those I care about from some predator.

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unrequited wrote:

what do you all have to say? I know there's an answer, but I can't find it right now, so I'm asking the collective opinions of people who I hope share my own feelings.

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Good answers above. I would also like to suggest that you offer to take him shooting. I believe it is the best way to bring people in line with your ideals, especially if most of what they know about firearms comes from Hollywood or the news.

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Basically any scenario somebody suggests where I or we are less safe due to me being armed is so out there that it's not realistic. Most of the "what if's" I've heard were something from a silly hollywood movie.

If somebody brings up one of these "what if" situations ask them to stick to reality - something they or a close friend/relative have experienced. I started OC'ing about 20 years ago and none of the BS scenarios people talk about have happened to me.

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To expand on Basic Guy's cogent comments, the game of "what if" is completely beside the point. If the media reports included numerous instances of such "worst case scenarios", I might be impressed, but the rare case of someone being disarmed so the BG could shoot others is like saying you shouldn't ever wear seat belts because there have been cases of people drowning or burning to death when they couldn't unhook their belts in time. In real life, you have to play the odds, and do it reasonably.

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Dutch,

That's my usual response when someone ask me about carrying. I usually ask if they wear a seatbelt and require their children to wear a seatbelts when riding in a car. 99 times out of 100 they say yes. I go on to say, you wear the seatbelt in the unlikely event that something bad may happen, providing you with the best chance for survival. I feel the same about carrying a firearm. I never, ever wish to have to use my gun to protect my friends, family, or whoever but in the unfortunate case that I would be forced to, I want to provided the best odds for surviving.

Cheers,
Jason

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unrequited wrote:

"Don't you think, that by carrying a gun, you put the people (your friends) around you at greater risk should you, lose control of your gun (to a BG), or should a situation arise, escalate the situation by having another gun present (either by drawing, or being discovered by the BG)?"


No. I think my friends & the people around me are safer because I have a gun. In the unlikely event that a bad guy does apear....We have a MUCH greater chance that the mear knowlage that I am armed will cause him to go elswhere rather then risk getting shot.

Now on the other hand... If I let a friend ride in my car I put them in MUCH greater danger of being hurt or killed then just being in the room with me when I am armed.

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Economically, your friends are free riders benifitting from the positive externality of your gun carry (deterrence & firepower should deterrence fail), while not incurring any expense.

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I have been trained in- and practice - weapon retention techniques. I practice thoughtful situational awareness where ever I go, but even with that a 'snatch' might happen. So anyone who OCs iswell-advised to get -and regularly practice - weapon retention strategies.No matter where you go, an openly carried firearm with the handle protruding might make for a tempting target for someone whose behind you -- even if they only did it in jest "to prove your gun can be taken".

My personal philosophy is that if a person is going to try to obtain your weapon from your person, they have taken an action that is a direct threat on your life and those around you. I am surprised and disappointed by the number of legally armed citizens who think the firearm in their possessionin and of itself is the only defense they need. That is certainly not the case.

I raise for your consideration my article in the May 2006 issue of Concealed Carry magazine "The Case for Integrated Training". If anyone would like a PDF file of that article, e-mail me and I will send itto you. EagleFiveZero@gmail.com.

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Eagle five zero where can we find the mag, it sounds like something we should check out. Thanxs Mtn Jack

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Not sure if this covers the exact situation in question, and being a newbie to the board I'm sure I'm bringing up previously covered material, but I figured most of these questions/answers are good to review every now and then:

Give It to Them Straight by John Ross
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/770702/posts