Police harassmment in Santa Fe / Right to use force

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Anyone know the attitude of LEO's in Santa Fe RE: OC?

Does anyone know if you can stand your ground outside your home in NM if actually threatened with a gun or knife, or do you need to retreat? What has the outcome of cases in NMwhere people had to use daedly force during an actual attack. Also is Inside the Waistband considerd concealed if the top of the holster and grip are showing?

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Great questions, I am surprised there haven't been any replies to these yet. I am not sure if they were addressed else where, but I would like to know also. I am going to start to open carry. I was wondering the questions about self defense. I was assaulted twice by a guy at a Wal Mart here. He even pushed my pregnant fiancee. He then came after us again in the parking lot not too long ago and if we hadn't made it to our truck he would have done it again. Of course the police have done nothing and when we were attacked the guy was friends with the officer and the officer would NOT press charges. The guy got a 72 dollar fine and I got to goto the ER and visit 4 different doctors, and now I have to walk with a cane for a while. I am not sure if even open carry will deter this guy, but I cannot let him just attack either of us. Any information would be helpful!

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SickTag,

I am sorry you are having trouble with that person. Be advised though that him seeing you with a gun may not make any diference in his aggressive behavior: Some people -- most notably tough-guy gangster punks -- will just force you to shoot them as they verbally try to intimidate you or make derisive/challenging remarks about your carrying as they walk towards you to force a confrontation/reaction/decision from you especially if you look like you'll hesitate ornot do it ("Are you going to use that gun it or not" or "You gonna shoot me ****?" and other such trash talk); they even do it to cops. They are just that crazy, indifferent, anti-socialor otherwise psycho/suicidal. So be prepared to use it...but of course you should be if you CC/OC, right?

You do not deserve to be harrassed or attacked. If these attacks are not being provoked by you, taking the POS out at some point would be a public service as it sounds likesomeone acting like thatmay be hostile to other people, too.

I plan to take a daytrip up to Alamogordo soon...maybe we could meet for coffee at Dennys there. Do you know if that Dennys isPOSTED re: OC-ing (or against anyone carrying any guns, CC or OC, at all)?



As for the guy asking about Santa Fe, I don't know because I have not carried when I have been there a couple of times (I visit my sister up in Rio Rancho and we sometimes go to Santa Fe/Taos). One reason I haven't is because I am with her and IF there IS any police harrassment, I don't want her to be distressed by the encounter (nor do I want her to think that just because of that, it's a "bad idea" to be armed), so I do not OC when I am with her, only when I am out alone (when I am in NM visting from Texas, as I said). But I read that Taos thread here and it seems just fine up there...I don't see why Santa Fe would be so different.

Don't know if there is a "Castle Doctrine" law in effect for NM...in that case, you would NOT have to retreat.



I am new to OC-ing also, living in TX were we can NOT do that, so I do not do it often, only when I cross the TX/NM state line and usually, on a short trips up to Las Cruces...and in the better weather, on my motorcycle.

-- John D.

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I am not sure of Denny's. I do not see many people OC but I don't think it would be a problem. I have not seen any signs posted at nearly any of the restaurants in the area. I know you cannot carry in Chili's or Applebees because they serve alcohol.
You can CC if you have a permit to anywhere that sells alcohol for off site consumption, but not on site.

If a place does not have the no guns sticker you can OC there unless asked not to carry on the premisses. Mostly if you dress nicely and not like you are looking for trouble no one really seems to notice much.

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Well, the only gun I have now toOC is very small...so people may not even notice it! Thanks for the info on Dennys...if there is no sign I guess all I can do it try OC-ing there and see what happens.

I have a larger gun I have designated myNM OC-ing gun but have no OC holster for it yet.

I do not have a TX CHL so I can not CC in NM (via their reciprocity law).

-- John D.

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Currently you may be charged if you "stand your ground" outside your home and shoot someone. Recently in Albuquerque a judge sentenced Elton John Richard (an Iraq veteran) to two years in prison for "standing his ground" after he chased a burglar 1/4 mile from his home. There is a lot of press about having Governor Richardson pardon him, but the way the law stands now, the judge did what the law requires.

That is why every gun owner in NM should write a letter to their state rep. or sen. and ask to have the Castle Doctrine law passed in NM. They attempted it in 2007, but two liberal Democrats prevented the house from getting it passed. I think it stands a good chance in 2009. I have written the Governor, both legislators and the Albuquerque Journal so that people are aware that if you shoot someone in NM outside your home you may face jail....so get Castle Doctrine passed!
Here is a link to the latest story about a request for a pardon for Richard:

http://www.krqe.com/Global/story.asp?S=7943213

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Wow I had no idea about that guy. That is horrible! I know that guns are touchy subjects for some people and many people seem to hold these misconceptions about not only guns but the people who own guns and their rights to have them. Sadly, in my opinion a lot of these people are the types that are more then willing to sign away their rights without being informed about what is going on. I know of a couple of people that think that all guns should be taken away from the common citizen, and they never looked at any of the sides of the matter before coming to these conclussions. I am not trying say this about everyone, but since I have decided to not only buy a gun but to start open carrying after my wife and I's baby is born how much the people around me are completely clueless about their rights and fire arms! I feel like an educator when I talk to people about it because a lot of the things that they say seem to only be myths or rumors. Many people say you cannot open carry because as soon as a police officer sees you he will shoot you! I have asked a couple people about open carry and they seem to never really have a problem with any of the LEOs. One LEO is a guy I went to school with who OC before he became an officer.

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I open (aka good guy) carry almost every day. On limited occasions I will conceal (aka criminal) carry.

The police in NM are, for the most part, properly trained on OC and the State's constitutional protections for doing so. I have not had a problem with the cops yet concerning this.

But then again I do not spend much time in Santa Fe where there seems to be a much larger percentage of nutsos that might want to give you a hard time about your OC.

As for the cop not wanting to press charges on the assault you and your girl friend experienced, I am at a loss as this should ALWAYS be your choice as a parking lot of a mall is NOT public property, and you have certain rights in this regard. Now the police can choose not to allow you to press charges, but usually that means HE takes a risk that you will not complain to his boss about his exceeding his authority; as he (the cop in question) does NOT have the ability to ignore YOUR wanting to press charges in most cases.

i.e. Sounds like an asshole for a cop from your description. Unfortunately some are just that, much like a certain percentage of the general population.

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Sounds like the cop was an asshole, in as much as he probably did NOT have a right to ignore your wanting to press charges. You *DID* tell him that you wanted to press charges right ?

As for open carry; I carry every day in ALBQ. without incident with the local cops. You should be able to in S. Fe too. It *IS* a protected right in NM.

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"As for open carry; I carry every day in ALBQ." -- para_org


...just don't OC in the Flying Star (Wyoming & Paseo del Norte location) or the terrified Nervous-Nellie black-guy manager will have a fit and probably call SWAT on you.

Are the Flying Stars posted yet?

-- John D.

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I was wondering if anyone knew the legality of OC in hospitals and public parks/rec centers

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Actually, they serve liquor in the Flying Star locations I am familar with, so ANY form of weapon's carry is illegal.

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The correct answer is it depends on which park or hospital. If public which level of government has a bearing on what is possbile and if private, what is declared by the owners/management.

ANY *decent* licensing class for concealed carry in NM *is* designed to cover ALL of these sorts of questions.

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Well, I've never seen liquor served at the Flying Stars, nor have I seen it on their menus.

-- John D.

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Um, beer is/was served there. Right ?

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No, didn't see any alcohol. Is it on their menu?

-- John D.

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Well my wife likes to take friends there, and I sometimes join her. I seem to recall not being able to "walk the dog" there last year, so I do NOT carry in there.

I guess the next time I am there, I will make a note to ask if they are using their "beverage license" ?

(Oh, um, the "walk the dog" thing I saw recently in referring to actively carrying a weapon and I am NOT specifically using it to refer to a service dog in a restaurant. (ALTHOUGH I do take care of a registered service dog interestingly enough, so I suppose I "could: be referring to both. ! ?))

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I am up in Rio Rancho (Albuquerque area) right now and even at a Satellite Coffee (owned by Flying Star) with my sister. I asked her, since she goes to Flying Star often and she said yes, Flying Star serves beer...so that's confirmed.

It's just that I hadn't noticed...I've never seen anyone drinking beers when I've been there nor have I seen it listed on their menu so I thought they didn't serve alcohol.

Regards,

-- John D.

P.S. Perhaps if you had your "dog" outside on Flying Star's "Petio" it'd be okay...

BTW, went to the Flying Star on Corrales Rd....still didn't see any beer anywhere but they have a small winerack w/ some glasses on the wall near the kitchen...didn't see wine listed on their menu, either. Go figure.

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Ok and this may be a stuid question but I am new to open carry and this grou seems to know what they are talking about but I can find no law prohibiting oc in banks or loan establishments. Advice or experiences? Or any other big places not to carry

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Your right. There is no such thing (law/rule). Yes, you can carry in a bank. Many people do.

However, as with ANY business, the bank itself might prohibit it. In which case they do not need me for a customer either.

(Oh yeah, I am speaking specifically about our state. (NM))