Firing a warning shot?

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Brigdh wrote:

It actually does, but it doesn't preform any horizontal stability, thus it will reach a V of 0

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Sorry but I don't understand your point. There is no connection between "stability" and whether or not V=0 at some point in the air. All projectiles with an initial angle >= 0 will hit V=0 at some point in flight. Otherwise they would never return to earth. If you were driving your car up a hill at 25 mph when the engine conked out and you decided to roll back to the service station at the bottom, your V is equal to 25 and as you approach the service station some -V, therefore your V must have been 0 at some point. This is the old story of the police office ticketing a motorist for failing to stop at a stop sign. The officer admits that the car (manual transmission?) rolled back a few feet but never came to a complete stop. This is impossible. You should always bring a physics teacher as well as a lawyer to court.

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You are confusing the verticle component of velocity for total velocity.

Ok, throw a ball up (as in straight up, 90 degrees). At some instant, the ball will have no V because the delta V of gravity is going against the V of the ball. Now, gravity only works "up" and "down". it has no effect on horizontal movement, "left" and right".

Now throw the ball at an angle between 0 and 90. That ball will not stop until it hits the ground. Gravity may slow the ball down, but then it speeds it back up.

Now, you must remember velocity is speed AND direction.


Now fired straight up, a bullet will eventually stop, and cancel the stabalizing effect of spinning. however, fired at an angle, the bullet never stops, and continues to be stabilized. The stabilization allows the bullet to exceed terminal speed limits of air resistance.

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Why would it stop spinning? Throw a football vertically over your head with a good spiral on it. When it comes back down, it is still spinning, it is just flying tail-first.

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I did not state that it would stop spinning, i said that the stabilization effect would be canceled. Also, a football is symetrical. A bullet is not

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Yes, but the bullet is symetrical about the spin axis.

And if it keeps spinning why won'tit remain stabilized regardless of whether it is moving or not, even if it is moving backwards?

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A bullet goes verticle. Gravity stops it at the apex. the bullet now starts falling. Now, the bullet is comming through the air in an aerodynamically unstable shape (a flat side). All of a sudden the bullet starts tumbling. Now the stabilization has no effect because it must be rotationally perpendicular to the direction of travel.

The aerodynamics of flight, shape of the projectile, and its motion are tightly coupled. The instant a variable is no longer constant, everything else is affected

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Brigdh wrote:

A bullet goes verticle. Gravity stops it at the apex. the bullet now starts falling. Now, the bullet is comming through the air in an aerodynamically unstable shape (a flat side). All of a sudden the bullet starts tumbling. Now the stabilization has no effect because it must be rotationally perpendicular to the direction of travel.

The aerodynamics of flight, shape of the projectile, and its motion are tightly coupled. The instant a variable is no longer constant, everything else is affected

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Problem is, most bullets will still be spinning even when the apex is reached...Probably at around 100000 rpm! More if it was a rifle with a fast twist. But, the point is that the gyroscopic effect of the spin will in most cases resist the aerodynamic tendancy ofany projectile with a center-of-pressure ahead of its center-of-mass to tumble. Exceptions would include light (or low density-coefficient) bullets out of a slow-twist barrel which reach a very high apex or flight-time, which would tend to allow agreater decay of the spin. A 40gr flat-based5.56mm shot straight up out of a 1-in-12 barrel probably would begin to tumble before it landed, for example, But a 180gr boat-tail out of a 7.62x51mm through a 1-in-10 barrel would probably not.

molonlabetn

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A warning shot fired in the air is extremely dangerous. Primarily because the Grand Jury which is deciding whether or not to indict you for Reckless Endangerment, probably thinks you could have nearly killed someone. Especially the more naive members of the jury.

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DT4E31 wrote:

A warning shot fired in the air is extremely dangerous. Primarily because the Grand Jury which is deciding whether or not to indict you for Reckless Endangerment, probably thinks you could have nearly killed someone. Especially the more naive members of the jury.

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I agree that warning shots are of little value and are very dangerous. How would you feel if the warning shot went up and then came down hitting a little kid? The only time you fire is to stop a person or an animal in its tracks. Also I am not a fan of shooting to injure. All you did then is make them more angry and dangerous. Always know what you are firing at and why.

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Sorry to dredge up an old thread.... I just wanted to point out that it is a FELONY in Arizona to fire a gun in the air.

This is a recent law which was passed following the death of a young teenaged girl in her family's backyard. Link to the wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon's_law_(Arizona)

In addition to being just plain stupid, firing into the air violates on of the principle rules of shooting: know your backstop.

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It's very difficult tothink of anything more expensive and unnecessary than a civilianfiring a warning shot from a firearm.

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I saw an episode of myth busters regarding shooting a bullet into the air and it falling. They came to the conclusion that a falling bullet does not have the velocity to kill anyone but may leave a bruise on whichever part of the body it hits.

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If you are threatened by a BG and fear for your safety, Fire the WARNING SHOT into the center of mass. What a great idea, warns all the other BG's to re-consider their career options.

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nice take on an old post!

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Warning shots.....it's amazing what becomes a warning shot...

I don't think it's too bold to say that whenever someone fires a warning shot ...that there is probably a goof with a gun involved...





Man Shoots Girlfriend with Pellet Gun


BY MARY SCHULTZ

April 16, 2009

LITTLE FERRY, N.J.(WPIX) - A Newton man is facing charges Thursday he shot his ex-girlfriend between the eyes with a pellet gun. Police Chief Ralph Verdi described the weapon as "scary authentic-looking."

20-year-old Greivin Vargas Jr. was charged with two counts of aggravated assault and two counts of weapons possession. He is being held at the Bergen County Jail on $25,000 bail.

According to Northjersey.com, Vargas told police he bought the gun because he was afraid of the woman's father. He claims he was attempting to fire a warning shot, but accidentally hit the woman in the forehead.

The police chief was quoted as saying, "This is the most realistic-looking pellet gun I've ever seen, and I've been on the job for over 30 years and a firearms instructor for over 20. It's scary these things are out there."

http://www.wpix.com/landing/?Man-Shoots-Girlfriend-with-Pellet-Gun=1&blockID=268293&feedID=1404


April 16, 2009

Rushford man shoots self in foot
By KEVIN BEHR


A Rushford, Minn., man shot himself in the foot early Wednesday after he fired a rifle into the air to scare away someone honking a car horn outside his house, according to the Winona County Sheriff’s Department.

Police said William Prescott Breyfogle, 60, shot himself in the left foot with a Winchester Model 1894 .30-.30 caliber rifle. But police suspect he might not be telling the truth about how he was shot.
Breyfogle woke up about 2 a.m. Wednesday to squealing tires and a honking horn outside his house, police said. He ran outside, fired a warning shot and got into his pickup truck, where the gun accidentally went off, he told police.

Breyfogle drove himself to Winona’s Community Memorial Hospital and was transferred to Gundersen Lutheran Medical Center in La Crosse, Wis., with “a lot of damage” to his foot, sheriff’s investigator Kraig Glover said. The injury is so severe, Breyfogle could lose his foot, he said.

Deputies noticed the pickup truck had been locked and found no bullet hole in the floorboards where Breyfogle’s left foot would have been. Police are investigating and might charge Breyfogle with felony reckless discharge of a firearm for firing the gun into the air, Glover said.

http://www.winonadailynews.com/articles/2009/04/16/news/06shoot.txt


Two Injured In Early-Morning Shooting In Adair County
April 2, 2009


ADAIR COUNTY, Okla. -- The Adair County Sheriff's Office and the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation are looking into a bizarre shooting.

Deputies say an 88-year-old man shot two young men in his driveway on New Piney road in the Piney community. The man barricaded himself behind his front door when police arrived at the scene.

They say he was still too shaken up at first to even talk with them about the strange scene they found in the front yard. Sheriff Austin Young said they found a pickup truck parked in the road and also two victims that had been shot by a 12 gauge shotgun.

He said the man told them he heard some sort of altercation outside and fired a single warning shot to scare off the two men. At this point, the sheriff’s department is not sure why the man decided to shoot.

Both men were hit by the blast, and were airlifted to Washington Regional Medical Center. They are expected to survive.

Relatives of the 88-year-old said there has been a problem with people breaking into houses in that area, and that could be a reason why the man responded with a weapon. Not too long ago he caught someone snooping through his closet while he was eating breakfast.

Neighbor Ed Beston said the man is quiet and normally keeps to himself, and wouldn’t harm anybody unless they were trying to harm him.

No charges have been filed against the man, and his family has been coming to his house periodically to check on him.

Deputies tell us the gun used was an antiquated type of shotgun. The man had to explain to them how to both load and unload it.

http://www.4029tv.com/news/19080909/detail.html

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Striketeam491 wrote:

If you are threatened by a BG and fear for your safety, Fire the WARNING SHOT into the center of mass. What a great idea, warns all the other BG's to re-consider their career options.

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Holy 2 year old thread, batman!

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back on topic...
a warning shot = waste of ammo.

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"I saw an episode of myth busters regarding shooting a bullet into the air and it falling. They came to the conclusion that a falling bullet does not have the velocity to kill anyone but may leave a bruise on whichever part of the body it hits."

I was out shooting in a gravel pit with my goof with a gun friend when he decided to shoot his .38 special straight up. It came down on top of my head, it stung a little but that's it....and no, I don't have a particularly hard head

I have had ricochets come back almost 360 degree's and hurt a hell of a lot more.

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I was up getting a drink when it happened so I cant personally say the story was true but from what I heard:

Two guys shooting handguns at a target pinned to a tree, one on either side of the pickup, using the hood to keep the ammo and extra mags on. The one on the passenger side switched from his revolver to his 9mm taurus and on his first shot the bullet ricochets and hits him in the stomache. It didnt go through his carhart but gave him some small bruises. He kept the bullet which besides a small dent in the cone is very nearly perfect in shape. Hes making it into a necklace as a reminder.

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The best method of handling this (IMHO, of course) is to never remove the weapon from its holster unless you intend to kill whomever you are trying to stop. Never fire a warning shot, the fact that you have a pistol or other weapon capable of killing should be sufficient to anyone who has two brain cells to rub together. If that doesn't stop them, you should try to find another avenue such as escape. If this doesn't work, unholster and aim center mass. At this point, you are committed and if they continue to advance, squeeze off a single round and stop. If this proves insufficient, repeat the previous step until the assailant expires. Do not leave the scene and call for police backup to inform them of your side of the story. Better make it a good one, because there are very few instances in life that will warrant taking another human life (or animal life in some states), and your ducks had better be in a very straight row if you do this.
Just my $.02, your results may vary...