Mike
Site Co-Founder
imported post
ne1 wrote:
ne1 wrote:
Are you from PA? Have you noticed the changes in the legislature recently?
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Open Carry day
- Thread starter exceltoexcel
- Start date
imported post
Mike wrote:
Mike wrote:
Yes, and our legislators need to be aware that we the people are capable of more changes in the future. The democrats did not win the last election, rather the republicans lost it by not being true to their oaths. Personally, I would be in favor of throwing them all out and replacing them with independent or third party candidates.Are you from PA? Have you noticed the changes in the legislature recently?
FreeorDie
Regular Member
imported post
ne1 wrote:
Lets get started with this RIGHT AWAY!!! :lol:
ne1 wrote:
Personally, I would be in favor of throwing them all out and replacing them with independent or third party candidates.
Lets get started with this RIGHT AWAY!!! :lol:
Lthrnck
Regular Member
imported post
I have to agree with NE1, a well organized, legally permitted, gathering (Demostration) is what is needed today. Then followed up with aCONTINOUS show of support by the Oneies, and Twoies and whateveris.. to keep the the information at the forefront of everyone's mind.
The OFCC held a series of "Open Carry Defense Walks" in 2003 to help get the Ohio CCW laws passed and from everything I have read on these walks, the only problems they had was some minor issues of getting parade permits from one or two of the Anti - Sheriffs/Police Chiefs.
People are so paranoid today because they aren't used to seeing law abiding citizens exercising their "Rights" that when we do, they think we are breaking the law. WE need to have Group gatherings and singles, doubles, 4-6, 6-8 what ever to get their mind trained once again that this is okay.
The one thing that concerns me is... If we don't feel we can Gather (Demostrate) for our "Rights" then are we really committed to the "Cause".
I have to agree with NE1, a well organized, legally permitted, gathering (Demostration) is what is needed today. Then followed up with aCONTINOUS show of support by the Oneies, and Twoies and whateveris.. to keep the the information at the forefront of everyone's mind.
The OFCC held a series of "Open Carry Defense Walks" in 2003 to help get the Ohio CCW laws passed and from everything I have read on these walks, the only problems they had was some minor issues of getting parade permits from one or two of the Anti - Sheriffs/Police Chiefs.
People are so paranoid today because they aren't used to seeing law abiding citizens exercising their "Rights" that when we do, they think we are breaking the law. WE need to have Group gatherings and singles, doubles, 4-6, 6-8 what ever to get their mind trained once again that this is okay.
The one thing that concerns me is... If we don't feel we can Gather (Demostrate) for our "Rights" then are we really committed to the "Cause".
Mike
Site Co-Founder
imported post
Lthrnck wrote:
Beyond this, I am simply positing common sense that if you are OCing in a jurisdiction where OC is not understaood as legal by sheeple and police, then creating a scene is possibly going to create the conditions for legislation or judge made law against OC.
Lthrnck wrote:
This logic fails me - "comittment" ought to mean the oppositie - that you are willing to OC as a normal person in daily life without the support of a pack.The one thing that concerns me is... If we don't feel we can Gather (Demostrate) for our "Rights" then are we really committed to the "Cause".
Beyond this, I am simply positing common sense that if you are OCing in a jurisdiction where OC is not understaood as legal by sheeple and police, then creating a scene is possibly going to create the conditions for legislation or judge made law against OC.
Lthrnck
Regular Member
imported post
Mike you must have missed the second line of my post.
OC'ing is misunderstood just about everywhere today. So we need both group and indivual efforts everywhere..
Mike you must have missed the second line of my post.
OC'ing is misunderstood just about everywhere today. So we need both group and indivual efforts everywhere..
imported post
An individual OCing gets very little notice and, much like thousands of individuals CCing, hardly advances the cause. It is when individuals are committed enough to form associations with similar individuals that societal norms develop.
An individual OCing gets very little notice and, much like thousands of individuals CCing, hardly advances the cause. It is when individuals are committed enough to form associations with similar individuals that societal norms develop.
urbanamish99
Regular Member
imported post
I have to agree with Mike on this one. I have OC'd for months in the Greater Phila, Chester Co., and Lancaster, PA areas. I have had some conversations with people, but mostly positive. I have a three beautiful, reasonably well behaved kids, and a beautiful wife, and walking through the mall with my TP9 in a paddle holster doesn't do anything but raise a few eyebrows. I would love the cameraderie of a group, but certainly don't feel the need to OC in a group. I have two friends with whom I OC occasionally, and agree that this has been an effective tool in spreading the word about the normality of OC.
As far as stretching out of my comfort zone, OC'ing to a 'work night' at our church on Thursday night was a bit of a stretch for me, but went well. Many in church are ex-Amish or Mennonite (including me), so there's not a lot of handgun owners around.
So, yeah, what Mike said...
I have to agree with Mike on this one. I have OC'd for months in the Greater Phila, Chester Co., and Lancaster, PA areas. I have had some conversations with people, but mostly positive. I have a three beautiful, reasonably well behaved kids, and a beautiful wife, and walking through the mall with my TP9 in a paddle holster doesn't do anything but raise a few eyebrows. I would love the cameraderie of a group, but certainly don't feel the need to OC in a group. I have two friends with whom I OC occasionally, and agree that this has been an effective tool in spreading the word about the normality of OC.
As far as stretching out of my comfort zone, OC'ing to a 'work night' at our church on Thursday night was a bit of a stretch for me, but went well. Many in church are ex-Amish or Mennonite (including me), so there's not a lot of handgun owners around.
So, yeah, what Mike said...
Lthrnck
Regular Member
imported post
Well as I stated in my first post... it takes both IMO.
Well as I stated in my first post... it takes both IMO.
imported post
I suspect some individuals feel quite cocky when they are the only ones perceived to be armed. These same individuals do not feelso secure when in the presence of other equals, hence the hesitancy to engage in group dynamics.
I suspect some individuals feel quite cocky when they are the only ones perceived to be armed. These same individuals do not feelso secure when in the presence of other equals, hence the hesitancy to engage in group dynamics.
exceltoexcel
Regular Member
imported post
With respect Mike, We already have "judge created law"
Open Carry Legal in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
Commonwealth v. Hawkins
In all parts of Pennsylvania, persons who are licensed may carry concealed firearms. 18 Pa.C.S. § 6108. *Except in Philadelphia, firearms may be carried openly without a license*. See Ortiz v. Commonwealth, ___ Pa. ___, ___, 681 A.2d 152, 155 (1996) (*only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying a firearm whether it is unconcealed or concealed; in other parts of the Commonwealth, unconcealed firearms do not require a license*). The Commonwealth takes the radical position that police have a duty to stop and frisk when they receive information from any source that a suspect has a gun. Since it is not illegal to carry a licensed gun in Pennsylvania,4 it is difficult to see where this shocking idea originates, notwithstanding the Commonwealth's fanciful and histrionic references to maniacs who may spray schoolyards with gunfire and assassins of public figures who may otherwise go undetected. Even if the Constitution of Pennsylvania would permit such invasive police activity as the Commonwealth proposes -- which it does not -- such activity seems more likely to endanger than to protect the public. Unnecessary police intervention, by definition, produces the possibility of conflict where none need exist.* Contrary to the Commonwealth's view, the public will receive its full measure of protection by police who act within the restraints imposed on them by Art. I, § 8 of the Constitution of Pennsylvania and this court's relevant case law. Upon receiving unverified information that a certain person is engaged in illegal activity, the police may always observe the suspect and conduct their own investigation. If police surveillance produces a reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct, the suspect may, of course, be briefly stopped and questioned (the Terry investigative stop),
Commonwealth v. Ortiz
53 Pa.C.S. section 13133. Philadelphia appellants assert that they are limited by the acts of the General Assembly only if those acts are applicable in the entire commonwealth, and the firearms statute is not. In particular, they argue that in Philadelphia County, the legislature requires that a person must be licensed to carry weapons openly and not concealed from sight,*
18 Pa.C.S. section 6108, [footnote 1] whereas in all other counties of Pennsylvania, *weapons may be carried openly without a license*, 18 Pa.C.S. section 6106. [footnote 2]\
With respect Mike, We already have "judge created law"
Open Carry Legal in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
Commonwealth v. Hawkins
In all parts of Pennsylvania, persons who are licensed may carry concealed firearms. 18 Pa.C.S. § 6108. *Except in Philadelphia, firearms may be carried openly without a license*. See Ortiz v. Commonwealth, ___ Pa. ___, ___, 681 A.2d 152, 155 (1996) (*only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying a firearm whether it is unconcealed or concealed; in other parts of the Commonwealth, unconcealed firearms do not require a license*). The Commonwealth takes the radical position that police have a duty to stop and frisk when they receive information from any source that a suspect has a gun. Since it is not illegal to carry a licensed gun in Pennsylvania,4 it is difficult to see where this shocking idea originates, notwithstanding the Commonwealth's fanciful and histrionic references to maniacs who may spray schoolyards with gunfire and assassins of public figures who may otherwise go undetected. Even if the Constitution of Pennsylvania would permit such invasive police activity as the Commonwealth proposes -- which it does not -- such activity seems more likely to endanger than to protect the public. Unnecessary police intervention, by definition, produces the possibility of conflict where none need exist.* Contrary to the Commonwealth's view, the public will receive its full measure of protection by police who act within the restraints imposed on them by Art. I, § 8 of the Constitution of Pennsylvania and this court's relevant case law. Upon receiving unverified information that a certain person is engaged in illegal activity, the police may always observe the suspect and conduct their own investigation. If police surveillance produces a reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct, the suspect may, of course, be briefly stopped and questioned (the Terry investigative stop),
Commonwealth v. Ortiz
53 Pa.C.S. section 13133. Philadelphia appellants assert that they are limited by the acts of the General Assembly only if those acts are applicable in the entire commonwealth, and the firearms statute is not. In particular, they argue that in Philadelphia County, the legislature requires that a person must be licensed to carry weapons openly and not concealed from sight,*
18 Pa.C.S. section 6108, [footnote 1] whereas in all other counties of Pennsylvania, *weapons may be carried openly without a license*, 18 Pa.C.S. section 6106. [footnote 2]\
Mike
Site Co-Founder
imported post
exceltoexcel wrote:
exceltoexcel wrote:
Not really here, the PA SC merely restates the clear langauge of the PA UFA. I supose any utterance of a judge = judge made law - but the statute cited and explained above is the statute.With respect Mike, We already have "judge created law"
Open Carry Legal in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
Commonwealth v. Hawkins
In all parts of Pennsylvania, persons who are licensed may carry concealed firearms. 18 Pa.C.S. § 6108. *Except in Philadelphia, firearms may be carried openly without a license*. See Ortiz v. Commonwealth, ___ Pa. ___, ___, 681 A.2d 152, 155 (1996) (*only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying a firearm whether it is unconcealed or concealed; in other parts of the Commonwealth, unconcealed firearms do not require a license*). . . .
Carnes
New member
imported post
1. Create a summary of the OC laws and legalities, much like the one done by exceltoexcel, directed toward the general firearm owner.
2. Create a flyer stating:
a. OC is legal.
b. Interested citizens will OC on "OC Day" (First Sat of every month?) in an effort to promote the right.
c. An address to this forum, the laws in particular.
3. opencarry.org members take items 1 and 2 to their local dealers/gunshowsand spread the word.
Like a muscle, a right that is not exercised atrophies, dies and becomes absolutely worthless.
1. Create a summary of the OC laws and legalities, much like the one done by exceltoexcel, directed toward the general firearm owner.
2. Create a flyer stating:
a. OC is legal.
b. Interested citizens will OC on "OC Day" (First Sat of every month?) in an effort to promote the right.
c. An address to this forum, the laws in particular.
3. opencarry.org members take items 1 and 2 to their local dealers/gunshowsand spread the word.
Like a muscle, a right that is not exercised atrophies, dies and becomes absolutely worthless.