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Thread: Arvada bans open carry.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Just saw this website, thought I would pass it along.
    http://arvadapd.org/home/965/1653
    Guns
    Open and Concealed Carry of Firearms

    What is “open carry” of firearms?
    Open carry is defined as the act of publicly carrying a firearm in plain sight. The definition of ‘plain sight’ varies somewhat from state to state, but can be broadly defined as simply not being hidden from common observation.
    Local governments may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area
    Can I carry a firearm openly in Arvada?
    Yes, but there are restrictions. Arvada has passed an ordinance against carrying firearms in public buildings. Those public buildings and locations prohibiting firearms are clearly postedas required byColorado Law. CRS 29-11.7-104,Arvada Municipal Code 62-71
    What is a concealed carry permit?
    If you are a resident of Colorado, or on active military duty stationed in Colorado, you may apply for a concealed handgun permit from your local Sheriff. If granted by the Sheriff, the permit authorizes individuals meeting the statutory requirements established by law to carry a concealed handgun anywhere in the State with some exceptions.
    Who issues permits?
    The County Sheriff is responsible for this per State law. Arvada is located in two separate counties. If your residence is EAST of Sheridan Boulevard you reside in the Adams County and if you reside WEST of Sheridan Boulevard you are in Jefferson County.
    Can a sheriff issue a permit to me, even if I don’t live in the area they cover?
    No, you must be a resident of their county for them to issue a permit.
    How do I apply for a permit?
    Some Sheriff’s Offices have their applications available online or you may pick up an application at your local Sheriff’s Office.
    Can I carry a handgun concealed without a permit in Colorado?
    No,it is a class 2 misdemeanor if caught, and you could forfeit the weapon. If carried concealed on school property it becomes a class 6 felony. CRS 18-12-105 and CRS 18-12-105.5.
    Where can I NOT carry a handgun with a valid Colorado concealed carry permit?
    Individuals with a valid Colorado concealed carry permit are authorized by Colorado Law to carry a concealed handgun anywhere in the State with the exception of:
    • Places where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by Federal Law; property of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; Public buildings which security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building to electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building. Public buildings where local government has passed a law prohibiting weapons in the building and posted the entrances to that effect. CRS 18-12-214.
    If I am carrying a concealed handgun and have to go on school grounds, what do I do?
    Leave the firearm locked securely in a container in the vehicle. Colorado Law allows the handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in your vehicle, you do not remain in the vehicle and, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked. CRS 18-12-214(3)(a)
    If I have a concealed carry permit, can I carry on college school grounds?
    Yes, with conditions, and as long as it is a public college. However, the Attorney General’s opinion is that the Regents to the University of Colorado are a constitutional office and have powers to govern that university; they may ban concealed carry on their campuses. As of the writing of this document, all of CU's campuses have a ban on concealed carry. CRS 18-12-105.5.
    If I have a permit to carry concealed, can I carry in the City of Denver?
    Yes. Colorado Law authorizes the concealed carry of a handgun in all areas of the state (see exceptions above) and does not allow for a local government to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of the law. CRS 18-12-214(1)(a)
    Can I have a handgun in my vehicle?
    Colorado Law allows a person to carry a handgun in a vehicle, loaded or unloaded, if its use is for lawful protection of that or another person or a person's property while traveling. It may be carried in open view or kept in a compartment normally used to carry items in a car, such as a glove box. It is unlawful to conceal a weapon on or about your person, or within a vehicle in a manner that would be considered concealed. However, a pistol tucked under the edge of a car seat where it is within easy reach may constitute carrying a concealed weapon. (38 Colo. App. 346, 556 P.2d 491 (1976)). CRS 18-12-105(2)(b)

    Arvada Municipal Code Section 62-71:
    Open carry of firearms prohibited.
    (a)Definitions: In this subsection:
    (1)Firearm means any handgun, automatic, revolver, pistol, rifle, shotgun, or other instrument or device capable of or intended to be capable of discharging bullets, cartridges, or other explosive devices.
    (2)Public building means any structure, facility, site, or area that is owned, operated, or leased by the city.
    (3)Specific area means:
    a.All recreational facilities and sports complexes located within the city and owned, operated, or leased by either the city or the North Jeffco Park and Recreation District including, but not limited to, swimming pools, tennis courts, ice rinks, skate parks, basketball courts, pedestrian and bicycle paths, green belts, golf courses, picnic facilities, lawns, gardens, parks, trails, or open space; or
    b.Arvada/Blunn reservoir, including the lake, dam, spillways, appurtenances, and city-owned lands surrounding the reservoir.
    (b)All firearms must be carried in such a manner so as to be completely concealed from the view of another. Any firearm carried in such a manner as to be visible in whole or in part and for any length of time to another shall be deemed to be open or openly carried.
    (c)It shall be unlawful for any person to open or openly carry any firearm in or upon any public building or specific area within the city.
    (d)Nothing in this section62-71 shall be construed to allow the carrying of any firearm except in accordance with state and federal law.
    (e)Nothing in this section62-71 shall be construed to forbid any peace officer or other city employee duly authorized to carry a firearm or firearms from carrying or wearing such firearms as may be necessary in the proper discharge of his duties. Nothing in this section62-71 shall be construed to forbid the employee of any armored car service agency providing money transport services pursuant to a contractual arrangement with the city or the North Jeffco Park and Recreation District from carrying or wearingsuch firearms as may be necessary in the proper discharge of his duties, so long as the employee has been duly authorized by his employer to carry a firearm or firearms and he is acting within the course of his employment at the time the firearm or firearms are being carried or worn.
    (f)Possession of a valid concealed carry permit shall not constitute a defense to a charge of openly carrying a firearm where prohibited.
    (g)Any person violating subsection (c) of this section shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by a fine, or imprisoned, or both, not to exceed the limits established in section 1-5 of this Code. (Ord. No. 3812, § 1, 6-16-03)


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    State pre-emption covers any city taking the law into their own hands. Only Denver can currently enforce an open-carry ban.

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    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    Lee:

    I agree that the state's pre-emption statute allows cities or counties to have no law more restrictive than a state firearms law, except for 2 or 3 Denver ordinances due to the infamous court case. Personally, I am all for unrestricted open carry; and even Vermont-styleno-permit concealed and open carry too.

    I think there is no state law mentioning the legality of open carry. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Now if there were such a state law, open carry could not be prohibited by cities other than Denver. Since there is no state law allowing open carry, a local prohibition ordinance would not conflict with state law.



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    Anubis wrote:
    Lee:

    I agree that the state's pre-emption statute allows cities or counties to have no law more restrictive than a state firearms law, except for 2 or 3 Denver ordinances due to the infamous court case. Personally, I am all for unrestricted open carry; and even Vermont-styleno-permit concealed and open carry too.

    I think there is no state law mentioning the legality of open carry. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Now if there were such a state law, open carry could not be prohibited by cities other than Denver. Since there is no state law allowing open carry, a local prohibition ordinance would not conflict with state law.

    No - the CO preemption statute is just that - preemption - the state law need not mention open carry to prempt local regulations of open carry - VA law does not mention oppen carry yet preemption preempts localities from enforcing open carry bans - the Denver open carry ban was upheld 3-3 - no precedential value - next vote will be 4-3 against the city trying to do this.

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    The state law mention of open carry is tied up as part of the state preemption law, immediately following the law stating local governments can't adopt any firearms laws:


    29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.

    A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.


    The vast majorities of towns and cities in Colorado are in compliance with this requirement, posting signs and such at their courthouses or parks. Even Boulder and the other anti-gun towns around Denver amended their municipal codes to match and have started posting the required signs and using detectors; Denver's the odd-man-out who thinks the law doesn't apply to them. So, Denver aside, if you don't see a sign, you're good to OC.

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    Can I have a handgun in my vehicle?
    Colorado Law allows a person to carry a handgun in a vehicle, loaded or unloaded, if its use is for lawful protection of that or another person or a person's property while traveling. It may be carried in open view or kept in a compartment normally used to carry items in a car, such as a glove box. It is unlawful to conceal a weapon on or about your person, or within a vehicle in a manner that would be considered concealed. However, a pistol tucked under the edge of a car seat where it is within easy reach may constitute carrying a concealed weapon. (38 Colo. App. 346, 556 P.2d 491 (1976)). CRS 18-12-105(2)(b)



    I'm from Ohio but dont understand the OC and the handgun in the vehicle law.Does this law apply everywhere inColorado? What about Denver? And what are you supposed to do if you are confronted by a Law Enforcement Officer while a loaded handgun is in your glovebox?



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    I just saw this - we at OCDO are tracking unlimited vehcile carry rights, even on your person, without permit, inside vehicles.

    Colo people - comments on this? i think summary above is inccorrect.

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    It's legal to carry a concealed handgun without a CHP anywhere in a private means of conveyance; by definition, if it's carried for lawful self-defense, it's never concealed in a car (the "is not considered concealed" portion of CRS 18-12-105 et seq.). The court case the Arvada website is citing is from way back in 1976 and predates all of the updated car carry legal verbiage by decades. As it stands, it might be more convenient to carry it in a glove box rather than making sure you unconceal it entirely before exiting to be OCing on foot, but that doesn't make it any sort of requirement. This might come up more frequently with people riding motorcycles than in cars... carrying a handgun under your jacket while on the road would really be the only safe way to do it as I see it, unless you wanted to lock it in a saddlebag, and that seems the automotive equivalent of it being in a car trunk.

    But all that aside, it's totally acceptable to carry a pistol on your person in a car without a CHP everywhere in Colorado. The Meyers decision forced that one down even Denver's throat.

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    denwego wrote:
    This might come up more frequently with people riding motorcycles than in cars... carrying a handgun under your jacket while on the road would really be the only safe way to do it as I see it, unless you wanted to lock it in a saddlebag, and that seems the automotive equivalent of it being in a car trunk.

    But all that aside, it's totally acceptable to carry a pistol on your person in a car without a CHP everywhere in Colorado. The Meyers decision forced that one down even Denver's throat.
    Agreed. I'm not a CO resident, but frequent visitor. I rode my motorcycle out there a few summers ago, and encountered the above situation, as I did not have a concealed handgun permit yet, but was not going to ride solo across the country unarmed. While in CO, I OC on foot. While riding, my mode of carry depended on the weather. If in a car, no license is needed to have it on your person, whether visible or not. In a car, no license is needed to have it rolling around on the floor or stuck in a compartment or glovebox.

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    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    I just saw this - we at OCDO are tracking unlimited vehcile carry rights, even on your person, without permit, inside vehicles.

    Colo people - comments on this? i think summary above is incorrect.


    I confirm that itis correct, exactly as Denwego wrote above, regarding carrying loaded handguns, including with a round in the chamber; long guns are OK but must not have a chambered round. The OpenCarry statement displayed when Colorado is clicked on your home page is incorrect: "Consequently, both open carry and unlicensed open car carry in Denver are prohibited."

    Denwego referred to the Meyer decision, which specifically discusses this and other points (e.g., Denver keeps its ban on magazines of over 20-round capacity). Here's a link to the decision. http://www.rmgo.org/alerts/2004-denverruling.htm

    Here are extracts from the relevant Colorado Revised Statutes:
    18-12-105. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons.]


    (1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully:

    (a) Carries a knife concealed on or about his or her person; or

    (b) Carries a firearm concealed on or about his or her person; or

    (c) ...

    (d) (Deleted by amendment, L. 93, p. 964, § 1, effective July 1, 1993.)

    (2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was:

    (a) A person in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his or her control at the time of the act of carrying; or

    (b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or...


    18-12-204. Permit contents - validity - carrying requirements.

    (1)... [permit stuff]

    (2)... [permit stuff]

    (3) (a) A person who may lawfully possess a handgun may carry a handgun under the following circumstances without obtaining a permit and the handgun shall not be considered concealed:

    (I) The handgun is in the possession of a person who is in a private automobile or in some other private means of conveyance and who carries the handgun for a legal use, including self-defense; or...
    (end of extracts)


    I gather you are collecting this information for all states. New Mexico has unrestricted vehicle carry of pistolsalso. Maybe our colleagues in New Mexico could quote the relevant statutes or decisions.



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    I am REALLY confused !?!?!?

    "Places where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by Federal Law; property of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school;"

    I have a CCW and Here in Utah i CAN carry at ANY school. FEDERALLaws is against OCing WITHOUT permit on/about school Property, but CCW WITH a Permit is not due to GEDERAL LAW???. 76-10-505.5 Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.

    Please help me understand guys

    Where can I NOT carry a handgun with a valid Colorado concealed carry permit?
    Individuals with a valid Colorado concealed carry permit are authorized by Colorado Law to carry a concealed handgun anywhere in the State with the exception of:

    • Places where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by Federal Law; property of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; Public buildings which security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building to electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building. Public buildings where local government has passed a law prohibiting weapons in the building and posted the entrances to that effect. CRS 18-12-214.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    I am REALLY confused !?!?!?

    "Places where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by Federal Law; property of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school"
    The part of the quoted sentence prior to the semicolon is related to federal law. The rest of the sentence relates to Colorado law. Colorado Revised Statutes prohibit carry of a firearm, except by LEOs, into elementary schools.

    For one with a permit recognized in Utah, carry into a Utah elementary school may be legal as you wrote. Since you are a Utah resident with a permit recognized in Colorado, you can legally carry in most areas of Colorado, but not into a Colorado elementary school.

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    Thank you. You are Right. I didn' read it Right. I did go to the Hot Air Ballon Festival in Co.Springs and a Sergent ( sergent miyakusu Co.Springs PD ) said to me as I talked to him about my CCW NOT being valid in CO, and I said READ theCBI website.He looked it up and read it out loud to me and he said -"You are in violation du to what I read. " I then went on and said then I can OC at least. He stated that IS Legal but that I would be arrested for doing it. I still stood my Ground on the Utah CCW issue and said that a Co CBI Agent PRIOR to me going stated that I was perfectly Legal with my Utah CCW to CCW in Co. He said -"No". "Well" I said. "Agent K****** who is the AGENT IN CHARGE sent me an E-MAIL stating that I was fine" He goes on to say -"She is wrong". At this time my jaw dropped cause I could not belive what I just heard. I gave Agents K's DIRECT ph #. We hung up my me saying -"Call me back when you KNOW". During this call The Serg. told me that He has been in LE fro 15 years so he knows what he is talking about.

    5 Min later he calls back saying. -"Mr. Jensen...You are right. It says..."

    Pursuant to Colorado law (CRS 18-12-213), the State of Colorado will recognize a valid permit issued in another state IF the permit was issued to a resident of the state issuing the permit, and the permittee is 21 yrs of age or older, AND the other state recognizes Colorado permits as valid in their state. Hence, a "yes" in the following table also indicates that a valid Colorado permit is recognized in that state, subject to their laws. When traveling with a Colorado permit, it is advisable to contact the state you are visiting to confirm reciprocity and to review that state's firearms laws.

    The state of Colorado no longer recognizes the validity of any permit issued by any state to a nonresident of that state (see CRS 18-12-213 amended 2007).

    This information is also available to Colorado law enforcement through the CCIC."

    I am VERY impressed that he called back and admitted to his incorrect knowledge. I have NEVER had that done to me before. I mean that an Officer ADMITS his understanding of the Law or Lack of it.

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    Regular Member reefteach's Avatar
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:

    I am VERY impressed that he called back and admitted to his incorrect knowledge. I have NEVER had that done to me before. I mean that an Officer ADMITS his understanding of the Law or Lack of it.
    He's still as full of hot air as those ballons in the sky, when it comes to getting arrested for OC in Colorado Springs.

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    Yep, at least I haven't been arrested yet. :shock:

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    Wait, isn't Arvada the place where the Christian Missionary Traing Center shooting took place?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Lee wrote:
    State pre-emption covers any city taking the law into their own hands. Only Denver can currently enforce an open-carry ban.

    Lee,

    Your understanding of the Denver ruling is incorrect.

    The basis of the Denver decision by the Colorado Supreme court is the fact that state preemption law applies to laws actually enacted by the state, in that, local government can not make laws that supersede orconflict withstate law. In the case of open carry,no state law actually exists that expressly allows one to openly carry a firearm (there is merely no law prohibiting it). Since there is no state law allowing for open carry, there is no law to preempt local law, therefore, it is perfectly legal for ahome-rule local government toenact a law against open carry (just as Denver did). The courts do not grant or deny rights on an individual basis, they do it based oncriteria and anyone meeting the samecriteria is covered by the same ruling (i.e. thebasis of case law).

    If you read the ruling in the case you will find that the justices clearly identify this as the basis of their ruling on all counts of the case. They found that state law did exist that granted vehicle carry and concealed carry with a permit and as such preempted Denver's authority to prohibit such activities. At the same time, they found that no state law exists allowing open carry with or without a license, thus, there was nothing top prevent Denver from exercising it's authority to prohibit open carry within their jurisdiction. The same is true for any home-rule government in Colorado, as well, which is why Colorado needs to pass an open carry law to prevent the loss of open carry in other locations.

    Take care all and be safe,

    Doc


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    Anubis wrote:
    I think there is no state law mentioning the legality of open carry. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
    I was wrong! There is no state law prohibiting open carry, but the following statute permits local governments to do so in certain circumstances (thanks Reefteach).

    29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.
    Statute text
    A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.

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