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Thread: Democrats launch 4 anti gun ownership bills in Congress

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    http://www.jpfo.org/alert20070122.htm


    Congress Shafts Second Amendment ... Again



    Well, they certainly didn't wait long, did they?

    Alan Korwin, author of "Gun Laws of America" ( http://www.gunlaws.com ), recently alerted us to some ominous activity taking place in Congress. Less than three weeks after the 110th Congress convened, the Democrats have already proposed four -- yes, FOUR -- new gun laws!

    "The Child Gun Safety and Gun Access Prevention Act of 2007," H.R.256 ( http://tinyurl.com/3brx43 ) would raise the minimum age for the ownership of a semi-automatic rifle from 18 to 21. In addition, children under 18 attending a gun show must be accompanied by an adult at all times. Worse, it calls for fines and jailtime if a child gets a hold of your firearm and uses it to cause death or serious bodily injury, if you "recklessly disregarded the risk" that a child could access your firearm.

    More ludricrous is H.R. 428 ( http://tinyurl.com/38k7mk ), entitled "To require the Consumer Product Safety Commission to ban toys which in size, shape, or overall appearance resemble real handguns." Yes, you read that right. The Democrats are pushing the banning of _toy_ guns, if they resemble real guns in size, shape OR overall appearance.

    There's also "The NICS Improvement Act," H.R. 297 ( http://tinyurl.com/2q88lf ). NICS, of course, is the national firearms background checks for the public required by the Brady law. We'd like to tell you more about the bill, but weirdly, no information on it has been posted on the Thomas Locator site for Congressional legislation.

    The most Draconian bill thus far, though, is "The Gun Show Loophole Closing Act of 2007," H.R. 96 ( http://tinyurl.com/2m8vmr ). This misleadingly-named bill -- a gun-hater's dream come true -- systematically destroys not just the Second Amendment but a number of your other rights as well.

    Says Alan Korwin of HR 96:



    "Under the original draft, currently legal gun shows are outlawed without prior federal permission. Gun show promoters must agree to warrantless searches in order to operate, and may be arrested if private citizens talk at the show about gun sales they wish to complete away from the show. The right to assemble peaceably at a gun show or even plan for one, carries stiff prison terms unless federal licenses are issued in advance. I am not making this up.

    "Massive new bureaucracy is created because all shows and their exhibitors must be registered 30 days before the show, then again 72 hours before the show, and again five days after the show. That's in addition to registering anyone who walks in, plus "any other information" the Secretary of the Treasury decides, by regulation, is necessary on vendors, attendees, and the show itself."
    This is just the beginning, folks. And we're in this alone. You may recall that President Bush has declared his willingness to sign any "assault weapons" bill that comes across his desk, so we probably shouldn't expect too much opposition to legislation of this type.

    All of these laws, of course, will be enforced by our "friends" at the BATFE. This begs the question: How many wake-up calls, and how many knocks at the door do we need? IF YOU HAVEN'T SUPPORTED THE MAKING OF OUR FILM _THE GANG_, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

    _The Gang_ ( http://www.jpfo.org/thegang.htm or http://www.thegangmovie.com ) focuses on the arbitrary, capricious, and yes, malicious activities of the BATFE. Our goal is not to "reform" or "reprimand" the BATFE: we want them OUT OF BUSINESS. We want to abolish ALL federal control and regulations of firearms. _The Gang_ will help us do that ... but we need you to help _The Gang_.

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    Regular Member vermonter's Avatar
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    I AGREE all of these are are bad but except for the toy gun bill. Some 17 year old shoved one into my taxicab window at 3 in the morning. If I hadn't been as well trained I would have shot him. I don't see how banning look-alike toys from gang banging kids affects my 2nd amendment rights. After having dealt with that first hand there is no arguement you can use to convince me otherwise.

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    If any republican votes for these bills they will not be in office the following term. I see it as a double edge sword if they pass we have problems, on the good side, lazy republicans might get off their asses and vote next election.

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    vermonter wrote:
    I AGREE all of these are are bad but except for the toy gun bill. Some 17 year old shoved one into my taxicab window at 3 in the morning. If I hadn't been as well trained I would have shot him. I don't see how banning look-alike toys from gang banging kids affects my 2nd amendment rights. After having dealt with that first hand there is no arguement you can use to convince me otherwise.
    That bill would effectivly ban Airsoft guns, an extreamly popular alternative to paintball.

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    vermonter wrote:
    I AGREE all of these are are bad but except for the toy gun bill. Some 17 year old shoved one into my taxicab window at 3 in the morning. If I hadn't been as well trained I would have shot him. I don't see how banning look-alike toys from gang banging kids affects my 2nd amendment rights. After having dealt with that first hand there is no arguement you can use to convince me otherwise.
    Toys aren't the problem. The problem is that a thug who uses one to stick you up is protected by courts from being shot by his intended victim. Banning a toy will not change that root problem.

    And while your 2nd Amm. rights are important, so is everyone else's right to do as they please so long as it's not harmful, such as playing cops and robbers with toy guns. (9th Amm.).

    So don't be so quick to give an inch to the antis who wrote that bill: it's a step toward demonizing the image of guns and eventually banning guns and their use as tools of self-defense.

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    The way I read it, this bill bans paintball guns as well since even paintball guns have the general shape and size of a firearm.

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    44Brent wrote:
    This is just the beginning, folks. And we're in this alone. You may recall that President Bushhas declared his willingness to sign any "assault weapons" bill that comes across his desk, so we probably shouldn't expect too much opposition to legislation of this type.
    Not that I don't believe ya, but do you have a link to that topic? I never read about it anywhere else but here.

    Thanks



    Matt

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    I agree about giving more fuel to the anti's. But can you imagine what fuel it will give them when some 15 year old is shot dead b/c he was just acting stupid with a look alike?I am all for paint ball, just make the shape like a paintball gun for airsoft. There has been a hell of a lot of stupidity with kids playing "stick em up" with these. It's only a matter of time until a CCW or OC shoots one by accident. I blame the evil corporate manufacturers. They don't care about anything but stuffing their pockets.

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    vermonter wrote:
    I agree about giving more fuel to the anti's. But can you imagine what fuel it will give them when some 15 year old is shot dead b/c he was just acting stupid with a look alike?
    That has already occurred. Just watch the news items on keepandbeararms.com and you'll see an incident like this every once in a while. If you hold up a liquor store or carjack somebody with a realistic toy you deserve whatever happens to you.

    When I was a little kid we played cops and robbers with fairly realistic-looking toy guns, but we never worried about getting shot by a cop, because we didn't try to hold up 7-11's, because the cops had a sense of discipline and restraint, and most importantly, society, even in my anti-gun state, was not yet conditioned to be afraid of kids with cap guns. Banning toy guns is just another loss of freedom; it furthers the idea that anything gun-related is "bad", and no good can come of it.

    And then, you have to ask what is the practical effect of banning toy guns. Would that have prevented said dirtbag from sticking it in your cab window? Or would he have said to himself, "Gee, since toy guns are banned, I'll have to obey that law, and just find some other way to carjack the cabbie."

    I don't think so. Bans of easy-to-fabricate objects are just stupid, especially when you can make one with some metal parts, a peice of wood, and a pocketknife.

    When toy guns are banned, only the criminals will have toy guns.

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    Too bad Stupidity isn't available at a toy store, maybe would could ban that then, too? Obviously, banning Stupid will keep people from having it, making it, and acting upon it... It's only common-sense that the millions of Stupid People Voting out there are just as dangerous as the Stupid People in Public Office........

    [/sarcasm]

    Bad behavior doesn't come from objects. Nor should we fear 'what might happen' if a kid gets shot while behaving badly. My son doesn't do it.... Gee, I wonder why that is.....
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    I've said this many, MANY times:



    I dont give a crap what the Democrats pass...I will continue to carry my pistol.

    I am not obliged to obey any unconstitutional law, and am willing to fight it in court or anywhere else for the rest of my life if necessary.

    I do NOT recognize any law that limits my ability to practice my 2nd amendment rights. There are NO restrictions on the 1st amendment. No sane person in the entire country would support limiting the 1st amendment to a permit-only status...and I refuse to have my 2nd amendment rights treated in such a way.

    The constitutional admendments are equal. None is more important or less important than the other.

    No one is putting limitations on the freedom of speech...and no one will put limitations on my right to keep and bear arms, either.

    I do what I WANT to do...within the confines of the constitution, which guarantees my right to keep and bear arms.

    The constitution isn't a limitation of rights of the People..it is a limitation of POWERS on the government.

    Honestly...what will they do? Put me in jail? Fine. Throw me in jail...I will have more supporters backing MY cause than the state has lawyers.



    There comes a time when our rights have been trampled enough. We draw a line...and fall back...draw a line..and fall back. I say we as gun owners finally draw our line in the sand and say "This far..and NO FARTHER!...we will NOT allow you to infringe on our rights anymore!"

    I'm sick and tired of 'passive activists'. Those that will sit and support the 2nd amendment from their comfy recliner, or those that will write long narratives on a pro-gun internet site....but won't lift a damned finger when an unconstitutional law is passed. Too many armchair quarterbacks in the pro-2a movement...time to get off your butts and DO something.

    Let me ask you this: If they pass yet another law banning certain firearms, are you just gonna sit there and be pissed off like last time...or are you actually going to DO something about it?

    Local law enforcement where my parents live have been trying for years to supress the knowledge that open carry is legal in all of Louisiana....so what do I do? I OPEN carry everywhere I go...ESPCIALLY when I go visit my parents. I have written letters, made contact with officials...requested interviews, etc etc.

    Again: You wouldn't just sit there if the government (at any level) started to infringe on your right to free speech...why do so many of us just sit here when our 2nd amendment rights are threatened?

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I'm with you brother. Already preparing.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    CrashVector wrote:
    I've said this many, MANY times:



    I dont give a crap what the Democrats pass...I will continue to carry my pistol.

    I am not obliged to obey any unconstitutional law, and am willing to fight it in court or anywhere else for the rest of my life if necessary.
    . . .
    Honestly...what will they do? Put me in jail? Fine. Throw me in jail...I will have more supporters backing MY cause than the state has lawyers.

    Yes, in fact, they WILLthrow you in jail, that is, unless you live in the states covered by the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals -- it is the only place that thus far even approaches the 2nd amendment as you know it: and even there you will probably spend your timein the hoosgowfor years while your lawyers and their lawyers argue about whether the statute they got you under passes constitutional muster.

    We --your law abiding supporters --will support you from outside of prison. We hope that gives you solace.

    But as far the proposals above go (toys aside)I bet youthatno idiot anti-gun legislation will pass this Congress, let alone get to the president, and wewill have the new crop of pro-gun democrats to thank for that.

    And if I am wrong, and the feds arrest me for failing to escort my teenage kidsfrom my tableso they canpee or gethamburgersthe next time we exhibit, Iwill owe you a pack of cigarettes during our stay together in club fed.



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    I have a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. I will exercise that right whenever and wherever I feel like it.

    Pro-Gun democrats? Where?

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    Try the 7 democratic senators (including Harry Reid) who refused to go along with the extension of the so called Assault Weapons Ban. If it weren't for these guys, it'd still be law now.

    There are atleast three more solidly pro-gun democratic senators who just came in during the last Congress.Any "duct tape" type gun legislationthat gets to the Senate floor now is either going to be "deliberated" to death, or just voted down.

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    Yes, there IS such a thing as a "conservative Democrat." It's just rare.

    Still, they are more with us than many so-called Republicans.

    I also will carry regardless of "the law"...after all, self-defense is a right and one needs the "tool" to exercise said right.

    So at the very least, civil-disobedience is in order.

    -- John D.

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    This may seem obvious, but isn't the child safety act (HR256) already covered by non-gun law on the books? I mean if a child gets a hold of a gun in your house and uses it to hurt/kill someone you would be criminally negligent anyway would you not?

    Just like if your unlicensed teen took your car out joyriding, got in an accident and hurt someone, you would be the one ultimately held responsible. We wouldn't need an extra "Child automobile safety and access prevention act." punishing the adult, since he/she would already be liable under current laws.

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    vermonter wrote:
    I AGREE all of these are are bad but except for the toy gun bill. Some 17 year old shoved one into my taxicab window at 3 in the morning. If I hadn't been as well trained I would have shot him. I don't see how banning look-alike toys from gang banging kids affects my 2nd amendment rights. After having dealt with that first hand there is no arguement you can use to convince me otherwise.
    It's not just whether the law is a good one -- we should be greatly concerned that the federal government has no jurisdiction on this issue. We should not happily permit the federal government to exercise its lawmaking power outside the bounds of its lawful authority.

    The constitution determines the authority of the federal government. If we just let it act unlawfully with impunity, we lose our handle on its power.

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    vermonter wrote:
    I agree about giving more fuel to the anti's. But can you imagine what fuel it will give them when some 15 year old is shot dead b/c he was just acting stupid with a look alike?I am all for paint ball, just make the shape like a paintball gun for airsoft. There has been a hell of a lot of stupidity with kids playing "stick em up" with these. It's only a matter of time until a CCW or OC shoots one by accident. I blame the evil corporate manufacturers. They don't care about anything but stuffing their pockets.
    It's really up to the parents to teach the 15-year-old some good sense. "Look, Johnnie, don't pull out a toy that looks like a gun and threaten a crowd with it. You'll get shot."

    My kids play with look-alike guns. Why should they be deprived of that fun just because an idiot gets himself shot for being stupid?

    And I don't follow you to the conclusion about the "evil corporate manufacturers." What if they're family-owned manufacturers? What if it's a family business, but they incorporated?

    What about you? Do you aim to make a profit when you work? Or is it your duty to produce at a loss?

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    cloudcroft wrote:

    I also will carry regardless of "the law"...after all, self-defense is a right and one needs the "tool" to exercise said right.

    So at the very least, civil-disobedience is in order.

    -- John D.
    Agreed. Even if the Democrats were ever successful in passing a full-scale gun ban, I wonder if they'd be able to actually enforce it. If the millions of gun owners simply ignored it, what would they do? I don't think they'd actually send out the military to come and disarm every American. If it ever did come to that then we're clearly not living in a free democracy. I think if there were ever full-scale confiscations like what happened in New Orleans they would NOT end peacefully.

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    gotarheels03 wrote:
    Agreed. Even if the Democrats were ever successful in passing a full-scale gun ban, I wonder if they'd be able to actually enforce it. If the millions of gun owners simply ignored it, what would they do? I don't think they'd actually send out the military to come and disarm every American. If it ever did come to that then we're clearly not living in a free democracy. I think if there were ever full-scale confiscations like what happened in New Orleans they would NOT end peacefully.
    I think I can already establish that we don't live in a free democracy. When the federal government tells you -- without any constitutional authority -- how much water you can flush in your toilet, you don't live in a free democracy.

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    Angry Gun Owners Threaten to Drive Democrats From Congress
    www.washingtonceasefire.com/content/view/42/35/

    How to Fire a Bad Politician

    www.washingtonceasefire.com/content/view/43/37/

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    I wonder where "The Donkey" is now? So much for his party being for gun rights.

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