Open Carry Experience in Englewood, OH

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Hello,

This is my first post on this site. I live in Englewood, OH. I have been thinking about the open carry in my area. So I went down to the police department and checked on what they had to say.

I wasn't shocked when the police really didnt know what to think. I have read so many stories about LEO's not knowing what the actual laws are. But they did say that they had no local lawsagainst[size=[font="Times New Roman"] [/font]][/size]it, and that they would follow the state laws.

So over the last week, I have open carried twice. The first time was around 10:00pm and I was stopping at the local convience store for some milk (no not UDF, they are a posted no guns allowed) but just a little store. I was also in my Marine Corps League uniform which probably validated my Good Guy image to some extent. I didnt have any problems but there was only a couple of people out at that time.

The second time was yesterday at about 5:00pm at the local Taco Bell. Went in to order. Several people in the place at that time. Got some funny looks but no one paniced and or called the police. Got my order and left. So not to bad so far, but I have yet to be stopped by our LEO's.

I think my next area will be walking around the block with my dog. I have already been open carrying around the outsidemy house so people have seen me there. Would like to hear from any other people in this area with any of their experiences.

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Good report - this is typical reaction - that is, little or no reaction, just some ejecatin!

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If signage is posted in compliance with a concealed carry statute, does such signage carry any legal weight against OC?

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From my understanding of the law.... Yes. If a business is posted "No Guns" it means no CCW or OC permitted. But I may be wrong.. someone else know for sure. At the moment if I see a "No Guns" sign I don't carry.. period.

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Yes. The wording in the ordinance, and on the signsis for "firearms" not just "concealed firearms" not being permitted.

(3) The owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises. A person who knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature is guilty of criminal trespass in violation of division (A)(4) of section 2911.21 of the Revised Code and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.



Glad to hear from another OH open Carrier. When the weather warms upI will be doing more of it. I just got my new OC Holster from Bianchi for my Taurus PT145. Wearing it right now!

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Well I tried Bob Evans this evening at the Englewood exit off of I 70. No problems.

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Just curious what set up you ar OCing.

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I carry a Beretta 92FS, in a standard nylon shoulder hostler. I have two extra mags on the right side with a 80lum flashlight attached to the shoulder rig. The flashlight and the 2 mags helps balance the weight of the Beretta on the left.. heavy gun when loaded.

I just ordered a new Blackhawk, Serpa holster shoulder rig. Hope it get here by the weekend.

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Well I have been OC'ing a little more lately. Been in Wal-Mart on Hoke Rd. also the McDonald's and Burger King on National Rd. No problems so far. If there's anyone else in the Englewood area let me know.

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Got some distrubing news the other day. It appears Bob Evan may be going to No Guns. I have contacted their corporate office and recieved information that their current policy is under review. I have request that they notify me when they make a final decesion.

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Interesting read....I figure most people would assume, if you are carrying, openly, you are a LEO or you are licensed in some way or another. I dont see "Jonny Thug" walking into a store on anywhere with his gun showing. I am going to call the sherriff dept I got my license from tomorrow and see what they say.

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Regarding Bob Evans (and other places), sounds like you need a supply of the neat "No Gun - No Money" wallet cards from Ohioans for Concealed Carry:
https://secure.ohioccw.org/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=107

(And once again I beg: there's no button on the editor for a just plain link to another page, though there's buttons for flash, wmv, quicktime, and images. What's up with that? Plus, I have seen some read-friendly links from time to time, instead of the auto-generated ones where the text is just a copy of the URL--how do people do that?)

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Yes.. I carry those cards with me all the time..

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Well a little update, so far have not seen any signs go up a Bob Evans. I have recieved 3 different interpretations on Bob Evans corporate policy. So even they don't know. So I'm just going to continue on OC'ing and CC'ing until something is displayed.

I also OC'd at Wal-Mart on Hoke Rd. in Englewood today. Got questioned by the Asst. Mgr., he thought I should be CC'ing. We had a very nice discussion about their corporate policy, and he said he would double check on it. Didn't ask me to leave or anything else. I told him to check on it, and the next time I was in I would look him up and see what he was told.

Overall a really nice chat with this manager with no problems. And he was even the one who said he would check on it. So a nice interaction today.

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Please post when you find out what Wal-Mart's policy is. I have heard different things - that the policy is that CC is fine, but open carriers may be asked to leave at manager's discretion, and on the other hand, that anything legal in that state is okay with corporate.



BB62

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I will BB, like you said in your post. Wal-Marts corporate policy is the stores are to abide by the State and Local laws in which they reside. I will let you all know what this manager finds out.

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May a person Open Carry, or a licensed person Concealed Carry on a private premise if a sign is posted giving notice that firearms are not welcomed?
It all depends on what the sign says.

ORC 2923.126(C)(1) states:
(C)(1) Nothing in this section shall negate or restrict a rule, policy, or practice of a private employer that is not a private college, university, or other institution of higher education concerning or prohibiting the presence of firearms on the private employer’s premises or property, including motor vehicles owned by the private employer. Nothing in this section shall require a private employer of that nature to adopt a rule, policy, or practice concerning or prohibiting the presence of firearms on the private employer’s premises or property, including motor vehicles owned by the private employer.

ORC 2923.126(C)(3) states:
(3) The owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises. A person who knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature is guilty of criminal trespass in violation of division (A)(4) of section 2911.21 of the Revised Code and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.

ORC 2923.126(C)(3) states in part that: “…may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises.”

So it would appear that if a sign stated: “NOTICE – No person shall carry a firearm, Deadly Weapon, or Dangerous Ordnance anywhere on this land, or these premises.” then if you ignored such notice you could be charged with trespass. The above notice does not leave much to the imagination. It’s hard to misinterpret.

But, the Attorney General suggests a different sigh.
See: http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention/concealcarry/index.asp

Concealed Carry Sign (NOTE: This is an example of a standard warning sign approved for use on state buildings. If you see this sign, it means that you cannot bring your concealed handgun inside. This sign is in the public domain. Businesses and persons wishing to post such signs are strongly advised to consult their legal counsel for language, style, format and placement.)

The link to the sign that the Attorney General approved for use on state buildings may be obtained from the following link. http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention/pubs/cc_hb12_sign.pdf

When you read the sigh there is a disclaimer. The disclaimer starts with: “Unless otherwise authorized by law, no person…” The law states where a person cannot carry a firearm as it relates to government property. But, the law states what private property owners must do to not permit the carrying on their private property. In other words, if a private property owner posted the sigh that the Attorney General states is authorized for government buildings, the sign would not be adequate Notice as to private property. The “Unless otherwise authorized by law” would indicate that if a person is not permitted open carry, or not licensed to conceal carry then the person may not carry on the private property. The Ohio Constitution permits open carry. And Ohio law permits licensed persons may conceal carry.

Therefore. if a private property owner uses the government approved sigh, then adequate notice has not been given.

As stated above the Attorney General gives notice to private property owners to consult an attorney. I bet they don’t.

But remember, if the private property owner asks you to leave and you don’t, you could be charged with trespass.

Now lets look at a typical scenario. A person pulls into a gas station that does not require payment before pumping. You pump your gas and you proceed to go inside the station to pay. You conceal carry. On the door is the notice the Attorney General recommends that government use.

You enter and in an attempt to pay the clerk sees your concealed firearm, tells you to leave, and refuses to accept payment. What do you do? The method or how to handle are endless.

Of course , if it were me, I would offer payment again and if the clerk refused payment, then I would leave. Under law, if payment is offered and it is refused, then payment has been made.
I suggest you check Ohio’s Uniform Commercial Code before proceeding with this course of action.

When the cops pull you over for leaving without paying, you better get the clerk to admit you offered to pay.

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Leatherneck - what was the final word in this matter?

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I have not seen any Bob Evans in my area posted as of yet. So I am assuming that the manager that gave me the information was wrong.

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Thanks for the response.

Actually, I was referring to your post about Wal Mart: "I will BB, like you said in your post. Wal-Marts corporate policy is the stores are to abide by the State and Local laws in which they reside. I will let you all know what this manager finds out."



BB62