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Thread: Holsters approved for Open Carry

  1. #1
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    Question for everyone.. I was OC in Wal-Mart today. Did not have any problems from the employee's or management. The cops didn't show up, so everything went okay.

    One customer did come up to me and in a somewhat hostile voice asked me "Is that thing loaded"? I said " Why do you ask"? His response was "Because it's pointing at me".

    I told him that I was legal to OC in Ohio, and that I was carrying in accordance with the Ohio laws for OC. He said I was not, and that I had to have my barrel pointing towards the ground. I use a shoulder holster in a horizontal position under my left arm. I also was not loaded at the time. The loaded magizine was locked in place but no round was chambered.I did this just for that reason, not that the man had any right to ask but I wanted to be able to show the officers (if they were called) that I was thinking of the safety of people around me.

    I have searched what I could find, and have not come up with anything that says I have to have the barrel pointing towards the ground. Has anyone found anything on this topic of carry. If so please let me know. I don't want to put a ding in our efforts to get the word out, by violating some regulation and having the anti's jump all over it and blow it up into a major story.

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    This is one downside of some shoulder hoslters - muzzle control.

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    Ialso prefer to not have muzzles pointed at me. PerhapsI should have said something earlier when you mentioned your method of carry. The "Israeli Carry" while shoulder holstered was a good idea while testing the waters. Here is the exact wording for disorderly conduct.

    § 2917.11. Disorderly conduct.

    (A) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another by doing any of the following:

    (1) Engaging in fighting, in threatening harm to persons or property, or in violent or turbulent behavior;

    (2) Making unreasonable noise or an offensively coarse utterance, gesture, or display or communicating unwarranted and grossly abusive language to any person;

    (3) Insulting, taunting, or challenging another, under circumstances in which that conduct is likely to provoke a violent response;

    (4) Hindering or preventing the movement of persons on a public street, road, highway, or right-of-way, or to, from, within, or upon public or private property, so as to interfere with the rights of others, and by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender;

    (5) Creating a condition that is physically offensive to persons or that presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property, by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender.




    Because there was no round chambered, I doubt it qualifies under #5 because there is no risk of injury. People who know firearms, they would understand that as long as you are not messing with it, there is no risk even when chambered.

    So the big question is could having the barrel of a gun openly pointed at a person while holstered be interpreted as a "a condition that is physically offensive to persons by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender.".

    I say no because your act serves the lawful and reasonable purpose of self defense, as expressed in the Ohio Constitution. I can see how a person might find looking down the barrel as being physically offensive however. But I am not a lawyer, or a LEO. I love having lots of different holsters for different modes of carry. I would use the shoulder holster for rural open carry, and use a hip or thigh rig for more urban environments. But don't let my opinion keep you from pusuing your hapiness.

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    Tough situation. In hindsight, a good reply might be, "That is why I keep the chamber empty." ".....keep it unloaded, " etc. If I'm not mistaken, an uncharged weapon is close enough to "unloaded" that nobodycan fuss about it in this exact context. Transport in a trunk to comply with law in certain jurisdictions would be a different story, however. The key is the context. Even I might have spoken to you if I saw it was cocked and locked, suggesting a charged chamber.

    Another suggestion would be that if a member OC'sstrictly for reasons of social change or political statement, perhaps a belt holster might notbe a bad idea.Its a differentsituation if one ordinarily CC's a shoulder holster and occasionally transitions to OC while away from home.

    Let us know how you solve the dilemna.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    A horizontal shoulder-holster which has a closed muzzle-end does wonders for appearing less 'threatening' to the person standing behind you.

    I'm fairly versed in the nature of firearms and their safety, and I can honestly say that standing behind somebody who is openly wearing a shoulder holster with an open end from which the muzzle of a (possibly) loaded pistol is protruding doesn't strike me as necessarily'un-safe'... but it doesn't exactly give me a warm-fuzzy either!

    For purposes of 'public-education', as noted, a mundane/traditional belt-holster is probably the method of carry which most sheep would naturally associate with 'good guy'. Don't take that opinion to mean that I think you should 'conform'... it's just an observation which has taught me to appear as respectable and confident as possible,so as not tocause those around me concern (which takes conscious effort and consideration when one appears young, like me, since more people than not would tend to jump to conclusions about my intentions because of that).

    A smile, good posture, and courtesy makes for a good ambassador... Gotta win their hearts and minds!

    Back to the question though, just my advice would be to take that encounter with a grain of salt, realizing that the man's concern was not altogether un-reasonable, and consider how you might avoid it in the future.

    Welcome to OCDO!

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    I completely disagree. If your holster ends up pointing the muzzle at someone else, and visibly so, then you're the one with the problem.

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    Just paint a smiley face on the end of your weapon and you'll spread sunshine and lollipops everywhere you go.

    LoveMyCountry

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    I tend to agree with this:
    If your holster ends up pointing the muzzle at someone else, and visibly so, then you're the one with the problem.

    Horizontal shoulder holsters strike me as being more of a CC holster. Vertical carry is better, I think.

    I for one do not like having muzzles pointed at me, either...
    For purposes of 'public-education', as noted, a mundane/traditional belt-holster is probably the method of carry which most sheep would naturally associate with 'good guy'.
    ...and I am certainly not one of your "sheep".



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    Thank you for all the advise. I usually CC most of the time with my vest on.

    In the winter it gets to be a real pain having to wear a heavy coat and the vest all the time. Putting both of them on and off getting in and out of my truckis the biggest pain. But when I want to just run into the store for something quick, I have to get out of the truck, put the vest on, put the heavy coat on, and then reverse it when I get done shopping. Well at least come March I wont have to take them off in my truck anylonger.

    Ido prefer the shoulder holster over any other, but can understand the problem that people might have with seeing the muzzle of a gun pointing back at them. Even though I now use a Blackhawk Serpa Holster. I don't usually like to carry unchambered but with the current attitude of people I felt it was probably a good idea. Maybe someday it won't be necessary to take such precautions, but for now....

    Isn't is a shame that we have to put ourselfs (OC and CC people) though this type of thinking process, just to try a apease some anti's who really don't have a clue.

    Thanks again for the advise. Gonna have to sit down and give this some thought on how to best approach this.

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    Lthrnck wrote:
    Isn't is a shame that we have to put ourselfs (OC and CC people) though this type of thinking process, just to try a apease some anti's who really don't have a clue.
    Think of it as deciding how best to conduct ourselves politely in public. OC is new for many of us, and in many states, and it's good to have a forum like this to be able to work out the best way to OC without being obnoxious or foolish. It's like fashion advice for gunowners. "How to carry in style and comfort".

    Sounds like your biggest problem is Ohio's car carry law. If you were wearing a belt holster, I'd say to wear a sweatshirt that you can just lift behind the gun when you get into the car, but a shoulder holster's tougher.

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    Will have to wait until after HB347 goes into effect on March 14th. Until then it's still illegal to CC in a motor vehicle

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    Guns in holsters do not go off by themselves regardless of where they are "pointed". HOWEVER sheeple don't understand this. Dump the shoulder rig for OC and get a nice IWB. The Miami Vice look is out. Not meaning to offend, just my personal feeling.

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    Guns in holsters do not go off by themselves regardless of where they are "pointed".
    And no one has ever had, or witnessed, a ND when drawing, either, right???


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    This is an interesting discussion. I have to admit that I never thought about the points that have been brought up here about muzzle direction and control, and the impact of a possible ND while drawing from a horizontal shoulder holster, regardless of how practiced I am and how unlikely it may be.

    I carried in a vertical shoulder holster back many, many years ago, and I tried on a friend's ******* (horizontal) rig and remember thinking how much more comfortable it was than my old vertical. I never purchased one, however. My carry is mostly OC, CC without regard to printing, or deep CC, normally in an ankle rig. After thinking about the points brought up here, and how I would feel if I knew I was in line with the muzzle of a weapon carried in a shoulder holster, I think I will stick to what I know and leave the shoulder rigs to others.

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    I like my shoulder rig, it's really all I have ever used until I started shooting IDPA matches last year. When I was in the Marines in the mid 70's, we used the old Tanker's rig. I agree it put the weapon more in front on your chest then my current Blackhawk Serpa holster does. But I really like the trigger lock/release on it.

    Still thinking about this one. I hate having to adjust my style to make some sheepe feel better. But the wise thing to do atm is to make them feel more comfortable and get the level of awareness up again. It's a forgotten right and it needs to be remembered, especially with today's enviroment.

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    I am also not aware of any Ohio law that specifies in what direction a firearm should be pointed when carried.

    However, due to my own feelings about muzzle control, I too would not use a horizontal rig. Vertical shoulder, no problem. Perhaps just consider switching? I see nothing wrong with shoulder holsters.

    If you think about it, I'd say they'd (vertical shoulder) be viewed as the least harmless to ordinary people, because of how easy they are to spot. No criminal would go to that much trouble to carry his gun...

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    Let's review the rules of gun safety.

    There's one that says "Do not point a gun at anything you do not intend to destroy".

  18. #18
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    Brent,

    I understand what your thinking here... But remember this is technically not a issue of safety. Pointing you gun, is from the ready position, or in your hand. My pistol is safely locked into my holster. Yes I agree even though a knowledgeable person would know my weapon cannot "Just go off" from that position, it is a bit troublesome to have a barrel pointing at you loaded or unloaded.

    So what I have done is purchased another Blackhawk Serpa Holster with OWB paddle attacked to it. I now carry both of these holsters in my truck or car. When I CC, I wear my preferred rigs, the shoulder holster. When I OC, I take off the shoulder and just use my OWB.

    This will hopefully make the Sheepe a little more comfortable.

  19. #19
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    Mike wrote:
    This is one downside of some shoulder hoslters - muzzle control.
    The same could be said of many anti's!

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    Lthrnck wrote:
    So what I have done is purchased another Blackhawk Serpa Holster with OWB paddle attacked to it. I now carry both of these holsters in my truck or car. When I CC, I wear my preferred rigs, the shoulder holster. When I OC, I take off the shoulder and just use my OWB.
    i have the same setup, except use a wild bill's paddle for cc.

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    44brent hmmmmmmmmmmm lets see i believe the rule of safe gun handling you are

    refering to says always keep the muzzel pointed in a safe direction Personally

    when i carry its open carry and i carry a PA-63 in a belt holster and have never had a

    problem yet but i have a bubbly personality so i would say that the keyto this whole

    dilema is education. Educate the anti's about your and their rights under the

    secondAmendment, then ask them an honest question do you feel safer with

    responsible intelligent people carrying where you can see it or would you rather be

    held up in the parking lot from some punk who jerks a gun from the front of his

    pants that need pulled up anyway and shove that gun in your face i guess it all

    comes back to education and comfort level of the public.I could go on and on about

    this but if anyone wants to chat more indepth or get my honest opinion leave a

    message im curious to know









    1 last thought as responsible firearms owners and responsible "GUN TOTEING

    CITIZENS"i feel its our responsibility to educate thosearound us. shoot straight and god bless

  22. #22
    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    I also alternate between a shoulder rig and IWB carrywith my 1911.

    I prefer to only use the shoulder rig (horizontal carry) with a cover garment for the very reason you illustrated, and use the IWB with a tucked in shirt for "Open-Carry".

    JMHO....YMMV
    Assault Weapon (N) Any firearm whose design disturbs the sleep of progressive politicians..

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