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Thread: clipdraw?

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    AFAIK, using a clipdraw is prohibited to use while open carrying right?

    Reason I ask is because sometimes if I need to go outside to take out the garbage of get the mail at night, Id rather just use a clipdraw with my glock without one in the chamber just for those quick trips, is that legal? Or must it be in a holster?

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    I'm not well versed in AZ law but their rules on open carry seem quite odd...

    "The law states that as long as a portion of the holster is visible, the weapon is not concealed. It is recommended that at least 2-3 inches of the holster be visible."

    and

    "An unholstered handgun carried by a non-permitee which is only partially visible is considered concealed, hence the recommendation to keep carried handguns holstered."

    I almost want to say that a clipdraw could be constued as concealed (IANAL). Another question for you that I have been debating with some coworkers about.....Why would you choose to carry a gun without a round in the chamber?

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    Under normal circumstances, I would never carry unchambered, I think its pretty dumb. But for those situations where I just need to make a quick run outside at night. I think if I used a clipdraw it would be safer for me to use a clipdraw w/ it unchambered. Or better yet, just carry it with the clipdraw chambered with a Saf-T Blok

    bayboy42 wrote:
    I'm not well versed in AZ law but their rules on open carry seem quite odd...

    "The law states that as long as a portion of the holster is visible, the weapon is not concealed. It is recommended that at least 2-3 inches of the holster be visible."

    and

    "An unholstered handgun carried by a non-permitee which is only partially visible is considered concealed, hence the recommendation to keep carried handguns holstered."

    I almost want to say that a clipdraw could be constued as concealed (IANAL). Another question for you that I have been debating with some coworkers about.....Why would you choose to carry a gun without a round in the chamber?

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    Just for clarification, that question was by no means a jab at you, simply a question. Even the manufacturers of the clipdraw recommend the Saf-T-Block if using with a Glock handgun. I'll keep my eyes on this thread to see if anyone else provides any more insight as to whether or not it would be open or concealed in AZ.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    jeri534 wrote:
    Reason I ask is because sometimes if I need to go outside to take out the garbage of get the mail at night...
    Does it matter? You're on your property, hang it off your ear if you like.

    I also don't see the point of carrying unchambered.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    jeri534 wrote:
    AFAIK, using a clipdraw is prohibited to use while open carrying right?

    Reason I ask is because sometimes if I need to go outside to take out the garbage of get the mail at night, Id rather just use a clipdraw with my glock without one in the chamber just for those quick trips, is that legal? Or must it be in a holster?
    Sorry forcoming so late on this disucssion. I see others have brought up the really good points:
    1. Why would you not have one in the chamber of your Glock?
    2. It's your property you can carry any way you want .... maybe yes, maybe no. A guy got arrested in Tucson for carrying openly in the "common areas" of his apartment complex. We (AzCDL) tried to fix that with SB 1301 but the governor vetoed it with a statment "get a permit."

    If you carry openly with a clipdraw you can be arrested. Not that you will - most LEO's are great pro-RKBA folk. The law says open carry has to be in a Belt Holster and the holster, NOT THE GUN, must be "wholly or partially visible." No way does a clip holster meet that definition.

    In 1994, state Appellate courts determined that "wholly or partially visible" means it's obvious under casual observation that you are wearing a gun. A guy got arrested for having a SOB (Small of Back) holster that a cop couldn't see.

    If you're going to use a clipdraw, I'd recommend having a CCW permit to keep you out of legal trouble "just in case."

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    So a fobus roto paddle holster in full view would be okay as i undertsand correct?

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Ghost wrote:
    So a fobus roto paddle holster in full view would be okay as i undertsand correct?
    Per the law as written- yes. Per the courts interpretatoin of the law (which REALLY counts) - maybe not; if an LEO says they didn't see your holster, it's considered concealed.

    "Full view" is in the eye of the beholder. If you're stark naked and wearing nothing but a gun belt and holster with a gun in it and standing in the middle of a crowd but the cop approaching you is coming from a direction where the Holster is not in "full view" you are carrying a concealed weapon.

    Would it happen? Not likely. Has it happened? Yes! (No - the guy wasn't naked). The odds are very slim that you would encounter an LEO that would getyou on such a technicality. However, if you are the one person it happens to, it's the end of your world as you know it. Really bad people don't care about misdemeanors but for us law-abiding folks, it means not being able to get many jobs, or loans or being able to rent in nice neighborhoods.

    Until we get the law changed, I'd recommend having a CCW permit. I carry open 90% of the time. Tactically, it's a very stupid thing to do but I do it to "innoculate" people into being used to seeing guns carried. I have a CCW permit.

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    Thank you and I am moving to Az and taking the CCW in June, I was asking cause according to the ccw in Az he says OP is okay w/o a permitt don't sweat it.. But thank you. I guess the right to OC is just a myth and the right to is being lost.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Ghost wrote:
    I guess the right to OC is just a myth and the right to is being lost.
    You got that right. Most "gun rights" in AZ are a myth. First in 1990 the court determined that the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms does not apply to concealed carry. Then in 1994 they delivered a one-two punch knocking out carrying in a vehicle and open carry. However, it seemed like the message never got out and everyone thinks this is the wild west where everything goes. AZ is lot more like CA than people realize.

    Sadly, the response to lost rights has been largely one of complacency. A few lone heros burnt out putting up a good fight, but there was no significant organized "push back" that I'm aware of (I've only been here since 2002) untilAzCDL started up a couple of years ago.

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    Fred,
    I'm a little confused by your post. If you consider open carry to be a stupid move tactically but yet you open carry 90% of the time, you appear to place your personal safety 2nd to making a political statement. Is that a fair assessment?

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    Armed4Life wrote:
    Fred,
    I'm a little confused by your post. If you consider open carry to be a stupid move tactically but yet you open carry 90% of the time, you appear to place your personal safety 2nd to making a political statement. Is that a fair assessment?
    I accept the risk. It's a personal decision. I'm not asking anyone else to do the same.

    Then, there is that 10% where I carry concealed because it is tactically smart not to draw attention to myself.

    But, carrying openly does invite that first bullet from the bad guy.

    I'd rather stand up and be counted than cower in the corner rattling my chains.

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    Fred,
    Just curious but what types of situations will you automatically choose to concealed carry vs OC? (banks?, late night errands?, bad parts of town?).

  14. #14
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    Armed4Life wrote:
    Fred,
    Just curious but what types of situations will you automatically choose to concealed carry vs OC? (banks?, late night errands?, bad parts of town?).
    When I feel the needto be discreet I carry concealed. That does not always equate to parts of town ortime of day. Gotta be flexible.

    Generally, I open carry in banks and stores.Asfar as I'm concerned all parts of town are bad. "Late night" at my stage in life is around 6 PM

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