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Thread: Car Travel Concerns

  1. #1
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    What's the best way to open carry in a vehicle? This is something I've been turning over in my head ever since I started to OC. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    If carrying on your person, just make sure that your weapon isn't covered by any clothing. Therefore, a hip holster, thigh rig, or just about anything not covered by clothing is fine. If carrying off your person, carry on top of the center console, on the passenger seat, on the dashboard, or on a vehicle mounted holster.

  3. #3
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    tattedupboy wrote:
    If carrying on your person, just make sure that your weapon isn't covered by any clothing. Therefore, a hip holster, thigh rig, or just about anything not covered by clothing is fine. If carrying off your person, carry on top of the center console, on the passenger seat, on the dashboard, or on a vehicle mounted holster.
    What about the seat belt? My seatbelt waist strap covers it somewhat. Someone looking in from the passenger side could see that I have a gun on my hip. Guess I'm in the clear then?

  4. #4
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    According to an email alert I received from the AZCDL today:

    If a casual observer cannot easily see your firearm, you are carrying concealed and could be arrested.
    · Wearing a gun in a vehicle = concealed carry. Without a permit you are subject to arrest.
    · Having a CCW permit and wearing a gun in a vehicle puts your non-CCW permit passengers at risk for being arrested for carrying concealed without a permit.
    · There is no clear objective standard in statute that you can rely on to avoid violating the law.


    Guess I better start toting my storage box with me in the car and make the transition from holster to case / case to holster discreetly.

    I'll be emailing the senators about this one.

  5. #5
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    Hermit wrote:
    According to an email alert I received from the AZCDL today:

    If a casual observer cannot easily see your firearm, you are carrying concealed and could be arrested.
    · Wearing a gun in a vehicle = concealed carry. Without a permit you are subject to arrest.
    · Having a CCW permit and wearing a gun in a vehicle puts your non-CCW permit passengers at risk for being arrested for carrying concealed without a permit.
    · There is no clear objective standard in statute that you can rely on to avoid violating the law.
    This does not sound right - do we have the AZCDL alert for context?

  6. #6
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    Here's the whole email:


    On February 12, 2007 the Senate Judiciary committee will hear SB 1251 & SB 1629. The committee members need to hear from you now!
    Information on these and other bills can be found at AzCDL's website: http://www.azcdl.org/html/legislation.html
    SB 1251
    Strengthens the "public establishment or event" storage requirements:
    · Defines "secure storage" and "readily accessible."
    · Prohibits recording information about the weapon or individual.
    · If "operator" doesn't comply, they can't prohibit weapons.
    · Exempts CCW permit holders from carry prohibitions except in court houses, etc.
    Since the new law became effective on 9/21/06, many of you have shared anecdotal stories about storage lockers not being available; data being recorded about you and your weapon; guns being tossed into boxes or bags; and downright refusal to store your weapon. It's time to go on record to emphasize the need for SB 1251.
    Due to objections from law enforcement, NRA, and others, we are expecting an amendment to be offered in committee to remove the permit holder exemption, and make a few other changes. We will monitor these changes, and inform you if they turn the bill into something bad for gun owners.
    SB 1629
    If you are not committing, or attempting to commit, a serious or violent crime, SB 1629 reclassifies carrying a concealed weapon without a permit as a petty offense. Here is the exact wording of the proposed new language for ARS 13-3102.K:
    "Misconduct involving weapons under subsection A, paragraph 1 or 2 of this section is a petty offense unless the violation occurs in the commission or attempted commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-604 or a violent crime as defined in section 13-604.04, in which case the offense is a class 1 misdemeanor."
    Under current law, if you have not been issued a concealed weapons (CCW) permit, it is a class 1 misdemeanor to carry a concealed weapon. Everyone is treated like a hardened criminal. Sadly, because of a couple of 1994 Appellate Court decisions:
    · If a casual observer cannot easily see your firearm, you are carrying concealed and could be arrested.
    · Wearing a gun in a vehicle = concealed carry. Without a permit you are subject to arrest.
    · Having a CCW permit and wearing a gun in a vehicle puts your non-CCW permit passengers at risk for being arrested for carrying concealed without a permit.
    · There is no clear objective standard in statute that you can rely on to avoid violating the law.
    SB 1629 separates the innocent mistake by otherwise law-abiding citizens from the cold-blooded actions of hardcore criminals. SB 1629 even adds the "attempted commission of a serious offense" language to the law, to assist law enforcement in determining who the bad guys are.
    The passage of SB 1251 and SB 1629 will not be accomplished without serious support and activism from YOU!
    It is essential to contact the Senate Judiciary committee members, strongly urging them to vote for SB 1251 and SB 1629. Both these bills are contentious issues and need all the support you can muster. Comments on each bill should be sent separately. The following are two cut-and-paste letters that you can use. One is for SB 1251 and the other is for SB 1629. After the letters are email lists of the committee members.




    Subject: Vote YES on SB 1251
    Dear Senator:
    The Arizona Citizens Defense League (AzCDL) has informed me that SB 1251 will be heard in the Senate Judiciary committee on Monday, February 12, 2007. I urge you to vote SB 1251 out of committee with a recommendation for passage by the full Senate.
    SB 1251 clarifies the "public establishment or event" storage requirements passed last year. Compliance by State agencies and municipalities has been uneven. Storage lockers have not been available; unauthorized record keeping about individuals carrying weapons has taken place; and operators of some public establishments have refused to comply with the law. Storage polices need to be uniform throughout the State and operators of public establishments need to have clear guidelines in order to comply with the intent of the Legislature.
    Again, I urge you to vote SB 1251 out of committee with a recommendation for passage by the full Senate.
    Sincerely,
    Your Name
    Street Address
    City, AZ zip-code
    (telephone number)

    Subject: Vote YES on SB 1629
    Dear Senator:
    The Arizona Citizens Defense League (AzCDL) has informed me that SB 1629 will be heard in the Senate Judiciary committee on Monday, February 12, 2007. I urge you to vote SB 1629 out of committee with a recommendation for passage by the full Senate.
    Under current law it is a class 1 misdemeanor to carry a concealed weapon without a permit. Because of 1994 Appellate Court decisions:
    · If a casual observer cannot easily see my firearm, I could be arrested for carrying a concealed weapon.
    · Having a firearm in my vehicle puts my passengers at risk for being arrested.
    · There is no clear objective standard in statute that I can rely on to determine if I am violating the law.
    SB 1629 only reduces the penalty for otherwise law-abiding citizens attempting to comply with a statue clouded by court decisions. SB 1629 retains the ability for law enforcement to arrest criminals. SB 1629 even adds the "attempted commission of a serious offense" language to the law, to assist law enforcement in determining who the bad guys are.
    Again, I urge you to vote SB 1629 out of committee with a recommendation for passage by the full Senate.
    Sincerely,
    Your Name
    Street Address
    City, AZ zip-code
    (telephone number)

    The following are email lists of the Senate Judiciary committee members. One list uses semi-colon separation and one uses comma separation. Use the format that meets the requirements of your email software.
    (semi-colon separation)
    cgray@azleg.gov; rgould@azleg.gov; kcheuvront@azleg.gov; ahale@azleg.gov; kjohnson@azleg.gov; rmiranda@azleg.gov; jwaring@azleg.gov
    (comma separation)
    cgray@azleg.gov, rgould@azleg.gov, kcheuvront@azleg.gov, ahale@azleg.gov, kjohnson@azleg.gov, rmiranda@azleg.gov, jwaring@azleg.gov
    Please take the time to drop a note to the committee members indicating that you support these bills, asking them to vote them out of committee with a recommendation for passage by the full Senate, and please forward this Alert widely to concerned gun owners.
    These alerts are a project of the Arizona Citizens Defense League (AzCDL), an all volunteer, non-profit, non-partisan grassroots organization. Join today!
    AzCDL – Protecting Your Freedom
    http://www.azcdl.org/html/join_us_.html
    Copyright © 2007 Arizona Citizens Defense League, Inc., all rights reserved.


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  7. #7
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    Hermit wrote:
    According to an email alert I received from the AZCDL today:

    If a casual observer cannot easily see your firearm, you are carrying concealed and could be arrested.
    · Wearing a gun in a vehicle = concealed carry. Without a permit you are subject to arrest.
    · Having a CCW permit and wearing a gun in a vehicle puts your non-CCW permit passengers at risk for being arrested for carrying concealed without a permit.
    · There is no clear objective standard in statute that you can rely on to avoid violating the law.
    This does not sound right - do we have the AZCDL alert for context?
    ARS 13-3102.F was obfuscated by a couple of 1994 court decision (Adams and Moerman). You can get a clearer (or cloudier) picture if you read pages 20-24 of this document. It's the one that used as the bible by DPS and is what all instructors are supposed to teach from.

    Fred


  8. #8
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    Thanks for the additional information.

    Sounds like I should either:

    1.) Put a BIG FIREARMS sticker on my Glock case, set it beside me with the gun inside it while I drive. Put the Glock case in bag (after holstering my firearm when I leave car), place bag behind seat.

    2.) Install a "car holster" that rides in-between me and the passenger seat and can be viewed by Police.

    I'm starting to wonder if it's even worth it at this point.

  9. #9
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    I take my holster and gun off my person and put it in the glovebox when driving in the car, placing it in the open is not a good option for me, tried it once and turned the corner and my gun almost slid off the seat, that just creates two kinds of bad, I either go for the gun to stop it, which looks bad or it falls and becomes "concealed".

  10. #10
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    I bought a cheap Uncle Mikes nylon holster and cut off the webbed retention strap.

    I just holster the weapon in the Uncle Mikes and wedge it between the seats. I imagine a pocket holster with a sticky band (Uncle Mikes makes one) would work just as well.

    I imagine wedging it into whatever handy carcrevice that still leaves it open to common observation would serve. However, IANAL.

    Even with acc permit,I still take the weapon off when I enter my car because I can't get to it under jacket and seat belt.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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