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Thread: Smithsonian - Dulles Annex Parking Lot

  1. #1
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    Greetings:

    I'm in the NoVA area this weekend, and the wife would like to go to the Air and Space Museum at the Dulles Annex. As far as I know, in Va, the airport property and parking lot are not verbotten? I have a means of secure storage in my vehicle. Will I get in legal trouble if I am stopped in the parking lot and the car is searched?(I'm assuming that I can not CC in the museum ?)



    Does anyone have any information to the contrary?



    Thanks very much.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I don't know who runs the museum but here is the VA statute regarding firearms at an airport. Looks to me like you are only prevented from carrying in the terminal.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...od+18.2-287.01
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Aiprot rules got nothing to do with it.

    Smithsonion claims that a federal law designed for DC let's Smithsonian declare no gun zones - presumably a $100 fine and ride to DC magistrate.

    Why dopn;t you call the museum and see what they have to say?

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Are you saying the museum is part of the Smithsonian system? If so, would that make it federal property and off limits anyway?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    Are you saying the museum is part of the Smithsonian system? If so, would that make it federal property and off limits anyway?
    No, because: 1. There is no general federal property banonly federal facilities ban with a lawful exception exclusion that has been written about extensively as most likley exceoting citizen self defense carry. and, 2. The Simthsonion is a private corporation cartered by Congress, and not per se a federal agency - that is why there is a special law for them.

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    Thanks All. I went to the museum today, with my gun secured in the trunk of the car. On the way in, on one of the road signs, I saw some text about "No weapons", but the sign was not clear about if it was discussing the parking lot, or the actual mueseum. By the time I saw the sign, I was comitted to parking, there was no way to turn around. The parking ticket had no restrictions printed, so I chose to assume that the sign refered to the actual attraction.

    From the web site, I assumed that I would be facing a metal detector, but there was only a bag check, included searching for gum, and scissors. There was lots of armed security at the front door, so they might have been watching for people carrying CCW, but no physical searches were going on...

    I guess calling in advance would have been a good idea, but I didn't get the chance to find the phone number, and besides, as we've seen so many other times (ie several recent Walmart threads), the people answering the phone tend to inject their personal beliefs rather than the actual law when answering questions about guns.:?

    For better or worse, that's what happened.

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    NC2VA wrote:
    I guess calling in advance would have been a good idea, but I didn't get the chance to find the phone number, and besides, as we've seen so many other times (ie several recent Walmart threads), the people answering the phone tend to inject their personal beliefs rather than the actual law when answering questions about guns.:?

    For better or worse, that's what happened.
    The problem is, unlike WalMart, there is actually a federal law making it a crime to possess a firearm anywhere in the universe where the Director of the Smithsonian says you cannot carry. So you were in violation of this law, and had notice at the parking lot - the better course of action would have been to call ahead and make a complaint re:the application of this rule in VA where unlike DC, a good part of the population isx armed at all times, legally. I have refused to go to the Smithsoniaon complex at Dulles for this reason, and they have heard from me on this several times.

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    Mike wrote:
    NC2VA wrote:
    I guess calling in advance would have been a good idea, but I didn't get the chance to find the phone number, and besides, as we've seen so many other times (ie several recent Walmart threads), the people answering the phone tend to inject their personal beliefs rather than the actual law when answering questions about guns.:?

    For better or worse, that's what happened.
    The problem is, unlike WalMart, there is actually a federal law making it a crime to possess a firearm anywhere in the universe where the Director of the Smithsonian says you cannot carry. So you were in violation of this law, and had notice at the parking lot - the better course of action would have been to call ahead and make a complaint re:the application of this rule in VA where unlike DC, a good part of the population isx armed at all times, legally. I have refused to go to the Smithsoniaon complex at Dulles for this reason, and they have heard from me on this several times.
    Do you have citation for that law, Mike?


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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Do you have citation for that law, Mike?
    Yup - 36 CFR 504 - it is a little complicated though - see this email below I sent on the VCDL.org Executive Members list a while back:

    -------------------------

    . . . Go to XXXXXXX cite for the reg at http://hkshooter.net/url/?36CFR504 and it defines applicability of the weapons ban to those grounds covered by 40 USCA § 193v - but this has been replaced by 40 USC 6301.

    The definition of grounds covered in 40 USC 6301 was amended to include any even temporary interest in land that the Smithsonian acquired - yet , but the penalty section states that prosecution for such offenses to be had in the District of Columbia Court of General Sessions - which I do not believe has jurisdiction over the Dulles facility.

    What is scary about the temporary use clause is that the law appears to let the Secretary of the Smithsonian establish a gun ban zone anywhere he obtains an even temporary interest in land - like a museum display anywhere on the planet!

    Mike
    ----------------------------
    Sec. 504.16 Penalties.

    Section 6 of the Smithsonian Institution Special Policing Statute,
    Act of October 24, 1951, 65 Stat. 635, 40 U.S.C. 193(s) states that:

    Whoever violates any provision of sections 193o-193q of this Title,
    or any regulation prescribed under section 193r of this Title, shall be
    fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than sixty days, or
    both, prosecution for such offenses to be had in the District of
    Columbia Court of General Sessions, upon information by the U.S.
    attorney or any of his assistants: Provided, That in any case where, in
    the commission of such offense, property is damaged in an amount
    exceeding $100, the amount of the fine for the offense may be not more
    than $5,000, the period of imprisonment for the offense may be not more
    than 5 years and prosecution shall be had in the U.S. District Court for
    the District of Columbia by indictment, or if the defendant, after he
    has been advised of the nature of the charge and of his rights, waives
    in open court prosecution by indictment, by information by the U.S.
    attorney or any of his assistants.

    ----------------------------
    40 U.S.C.A. § 6301

    ***Formerly cited as 40 USCA § 193v***

    United States Code Annotated Currentness


    Title 40. Public Buildings, Property, and Works (Refs & Annos)

    Subtitle II. Public Buildings and Works

    Part C. Federal Building Complexes

    Chapter 63. Smithsonian Institution, National Gallery of Art, and John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts

    § 6301. Definition

    In this chapter, the term "specified buildings and grounds" means--

    (1) Smithsonian Institution.--The Smithsonian Institution and its grounds, which include the following:

    (A) Smithsonian Buildings and grounds on the National Mall.--The Smithsonian Building, the Arts and Industries Building, the Freer Gallery of Art, the National Air and Space Museum, the National Museum of Natural History, the National Museum of American History, the National Museum of the American Indian, the Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden, the Arthur M. Sackler Gallery, the National Museum of African Art, the S. Dillon Ripley Center, and all other buildings of the Smithsonian Institution within the Mall, including the entrance walks, unloading areas, and other pertinent service roads and parking areas.

    (B) National Zoological Park.--The National Zoological Park comprising all the buildings, streets, service roads, walks, and other areas within the boundary fence of the National Zoological Park in the District of Columbia and including the public space between that fence and the face of the curb lines of the adjacent city streets.

    (C) Other Smithsonian Buildings and grounds.--All other buildings, service roads, walks, and other areas within the exterior boundaries of any real estate or land or interest in land (including temporary use) that the Smithsonian Institution acquires and that the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution determines to be necessary for the adequate protection of individuals or property in the Smithsonian Institution and suitable for administration as a part of the Smithsonian Institution.

    (2) National Gallery of Art.--The National Gallery of Art and its grounds, which extend--

    (A) to the line of the face of the south curb of Constitution Avenue Northwest, between Seventh Street Northwest, and Fourth Street Northwest, to the line of the face of the west curb of Fourth Street Northwest, between Constitution Avenue Northwest, and Madison Drive Northwest; to the line of the face of the north curb of Madison Drive Northwest, between Fourth Street Northwest, and Seventh Street Northwest; and to the line of the face of the east curb of Seventh Street Northwest, between Madison Drive Northwest, and Constitution Avenue Northwest;

    (B) to the line of the face of the south curb of Pennsylvania Avenue Northwest, between Fourth Street and Third Street Northwest, to the line of the face of the west curb of Third Street Northwest, between Pennsylvania Avenue and Madison Drive Northwest, to the line of the face of the north curb of Madison Drive Northwest, between Third Street and Fourth Street Northwest, and to the line of the face of the east curb of Fourth Street Northwest, between Pennsylvania Avenue and Madison Drive Northwest; and

    (C) to the line of the face of the south curb of Constitution Avenue Northwest, between Ninth Street Northwest and Seventh Street Northwest; to the line of the face of the west curb of Seventh Street Northwest, between Constitution Avenue Northwest and Madison Drive Northwest; to the line of the face of the north curb of Madison Drive Northwest, between Seventh Street Northwest and the line of the face of the east side of the east retaining wall of the Ninth Street Expressway Northwest; and to the line of the face of the east side of the east retaining wall of the Ninth Street Expressway Northwest, between Madison Drive Northwest and Constitution Avenue Northwest.

    (3) John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts.--The John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, which extends to the line of the west face of the west retaining walls and curbs of the Inner Loop Freeway on the east, the north face of the north retaining walls and curbs of the Theodore Roosevelt Bridge approaches on the south, the east face of the east retaining walls and curbs of Rock Creek Parkway on the west, and the south curbs of New Hampshire Avenue and F Street on the north, as generally depicted on the map entitled "Transfer of John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts", numbered 844/82563 and dated April 20, 1994 (as amended by the map entitled "Transfer of John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts', numbered 844/82563A and dated May 22, 1997), which shall be on file and available for public inspection in the office of the National Capital Region, National Park Service.

    CREDIT(S)

    (Pub.L. 107-217, § 1, Aug. 21, 2002, 116 Stat. 1184.)

    HISTORICAL AND STATUTORY NOTES

    Revision Notes and Legislative Reports

    2002 Acts

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Revised Section Source (U.S. Code) Source (Statutes at Large)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    6301 ............. 40:193v. Oct. 24, 1951, ch. 559, § 9, 65 Stat.
    635; Pub. L. 88-391, § 3, Aug. 1,
    1964, 78 Stat. 366; Pub. L. 90-376, §
    3, July 5, 1968, 82 Stat. 286; Pub. L.
    102-336, Aug. 7, 1992, 106 Stat. 864;
    Pub. L. 103-279, § 9(c), July 21,
    1994, 108 Stat. 1417; Pub. L. 105-95,
    § 4 (related to section 9(3) of the
    Act of October 24, 1951), Nov. 19,
    1997, 111 Stat. 2149.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    In clause (1)(A), the words "National Museum of American History" are substituted for "Museum of History and Technology" because of section 3 of the Act of October 13, 1980 (Public Law 96-441, 20:71 note).

    In clause (1)(C), the words "the Smithsonian Institution acquires" are substituted for "that shall hereafter be acquired by the Smithsonian Institution" to eliminate unnecessary words.

    In clause (3), the words "the site of" are omitted as unnecessary and for consistency in the revised section.

    House Report No. 107-479, see 2002 U.S. Code Cong. and Adm. News, p. 827.


    LIBRARY REFERENCES

    American Digest System


    United States 57.

    Key Number System Topic No. 393.


    40 U.S.C.A. § 6301, 40 USCA § 6301



    Current through P.L. 109-221 approved 05-12-06

    ----------------------------
    In a message dated 5/30/2006 9:13:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXXXXXXXXX writes:
    I sent an e-mail to some office for the Smithsonian Air and Space
    Museum at Dulles asking why they still banned the lawful carry
    of self-defense firearms now that MWAA had changed their regulations.
    A month passed, but I actually received a physical letter from the Director
    of Visitor Services basically saying that the Code of Federal Regulations
    prohibits carrying firearms in Smithsonian Institution buildings
    except for official purposes. The specific reference is
    36CFR504.14 which I found at:

    ---------------------------------------------------
    http://hkshooter.net/url/?36CFR504

    [Code of Federal Regulations]
    [Title 36, Volume 3]
    [Revised as of July 1, 2005]
    From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
    [CITE: 36CFR504.14]

    [Page 56]

    TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY

    CHAPTER V--SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION

    PART 504_RULES AND REGULATIONS GOVERNING SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
    BUILDINGS AND GROUNDS--Table of Contents

    Sec. 504.14 Weapons and explosives.

    No person while on the premises shall carry firearms, other
    dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed,
    except for official purposes.

  10. #10
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    Lets give our Moderator a break on this one. He'd have to cite the federal law authorizing the Smithsonian actions, and then cite the Smithsonian policy deriving from that law.

    Whoops. Too late.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  11. #11
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    Thanks all for the information.

    It was certainly not my intention to screw this up. The sign was at the entrance to the parking lot, and my reading of it led me to believe that it referred to the meusuem proper, not the parking lot, given that the parking lot is on Airport property and is in Va., not DC. Besides which, the meuseum lists prohibited items as Guns, knives, gum and scissors, all things that are legal to carry in your vehicle. In addition, by the time the sign was posted, I was already on the property and in violation, hence the the assumption that the sign referred to the building, and not the parking lot.

    I certainly won't do this again, but it certainly makes traveling tough. If you are legal to carry and traveling, what do you do? Leave it in a Hotel? After reading up on Virginia law, I thought I understood all the places that I could go... This scares me tons...

    Thanks again to all those that know much more than I do.




  12. #12
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    the first time I visited, I disarmed and locked the gun in the car. When I got to the door, I realized I had forgotten my knife that was clipped to my pocket. The guard noticed and pointed it out to me nicely. It was a minor oops but he asked me to "leave it in the car like the rest of the prohibited items". Then he joked and asked if I was carrying any concealed sodas nice guy!

    I also assumed that the ban was for the building because you have already entered the parking lot before you see the sign!

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